Would You buy a house if seller can not provide documents ?

[Theeasypeasywoman]

So we are in the process of buying a house and sellers cannot provide following documents :
1.planning permission of two storey extension
2.Missing deed containing restrictive covenants

1. covenants consent for previous extensions
2. Boiler regulation certificate

We are FTB and in a bit of worry regarding this as we do not know if we should go ahead with the purchase or not. Our lawyer has asked for indemnity insurance to the seller but we think its quite a lot of important documents missing and we do not want to be in trouble when selling the house. I will really appreciate your thoughts on this

The key question is how long ago the extensions were done, and when was the boiler installed.

The more recent the work, the more critical the documentation.

Surely the first ought to be accessible from the council?

I would be a bit concerned at that combination, I must say. What exactly would the indemnity insurance cover? Costs of knocking down an extension if you were forced to? Legal costs? What about reduction in the house value? And that doesn’t address the stress and inconvenience. I presume the covenants are not visible in the land registry, is there anywhere else that might hold them? Eg church records, neighbours.

The boiler wouldn’t bother me personally, if you’re worried then take out boiler cover and have it serviced when you move in.

How long ago do items 1-3 relate to? As the years pass, they become of less relevance. The usual way of dealing is indemnity insurance. When you come to sell, your buyers will likewise want indemnity insurance.

Though planning permission should be easily obtained by the vendor, solicitor or yourself checking with the local council.

Covenants in deeds, again, lose relevance as time passes. It's common for them to be included by developers for the whole building site, but once the site is finished/sold, the developers don't care anymore, and many go bankrupt over time, so there may be no one who could enforce the covenants anyway.

Re boiler, the manufactures warrantees/guarantees aren't usually valid unless the boiler is serviced annually, so you can probably forget the warranty as if the vendor hasn't proof of purchase or a registration, then they probably havn't had it serviced annually either. But if they have, then even if not yet registered, if they can give you proof of purchase (invoice), then you may well be able to still claim on the warranty/guarantee if it goes wrong. Or you could just take out British Gas boiler service/cover which covers parts and labour, so you don't need the manufacturer's guarantee.

IIRC indemnity insurance only protects you from legal costs, it doesn't cover the cost of correcting works.

Having said that, planning permission records should be findable at council, and covenants and changes to covenants should be registered with the deeds at the Land Registry. The boiler is a lesser issue and wouldn't bother me hugely (I would get it sorted ASAP after moving in though).

So the Two storey extension was done about 20 years ago with original sellers and looks like the current seller did not ask for proper documents when buying the house. Planning permission needed along with consent of the covenants for original two storey extension which is not available. the house actually has two title registers (leasehold and freehold) with covenants (developers). we are not worried about boiler regulation certificate much and that can be easily solved but first 3 issues are key documents of the house.

You can check if the boiler was registered here

www.gassaferegister.co.uk/help-and-advice/gas-safety-certificates-records/building-regulations-certificate/

I'm guessing it wasn't, it's only £6 to get a new certificate if they've lost it.

the deed with restrictive covenants is missing in the land registry itself so nobody exactly knows the restrictions of the covenants.

Oh, jinxed. Could you have a look on the council's planning portal website? Some councils have digitised 90s and older records. Might find something in there!

Thé risk with building without planning permission is that the Council can take enforcement action and require it to be removed.

However, they cannot take enforcement action after the building has been complete for 4 years or more so the lack of planning permission in a 20 year old building is unlikely to be an issue.

The reason it could be important is that it makes it harder for you to sell when you want to. It can decrease the mortgage valuation, making it much harder for a prospective buyer to get a mortgage on it.

Talk to your conveyancing solicitor he should help you with each of these

But from my experience when selling I do remember I couldn't find the planning permission letter - I spoke to council planning department and it turns out there never was one - it's all on line , I don't know if that's for all councils but do know they are expected to reduce paper trail and do more on line so that may be a solution

Not sure where a deed with the restricted covenants could be , surely with the last solicitor who did the convincing during the last sale ? If the covenance is old then it may be planning would have gone ahead without getting permission because the people are not available anymore ? Often a indemnity insurance would cover this

Boiler certificate can be obtained by the vendor getting it serviced and getting a current certificate issued to show this

Hope this helps

I can see record of planning permissions gong back to the late 90s on the local Authority website. Might be worth checking.

Have you checked the council website yourself? I checked when buying our house and there were full planning documents going back 30 years.

As well as the thinks other posters have mentioned one other thing to consider is that when you come to sell, your buyers are likely to come across the same issues if you haven't rectified them.... It could make it harder for you to sell the property on.

We've just sold a house which was missing all of those items OP. It was a family member's home. The extension referred to in 1 and 3 on your list had been built in the 70s and the buyer's solicitor wasn't concerned. Re 2. the deeds were lost in a Building Society fire; replacements were available, but didn't have details of the restrictive covenants so we paid for an indemnity policy for that.

Re no. 4, you can look that up on the Gas Safe website. If it's not there, then I guess that's a decision you'll have to make. Our buyers weren't bothered that the boiler hadn't been registered it was pretty old and they were planning on replacing it.

Were the neighbours' houses part of the same build (estate/street etc)? If so you can get copies of their deeds which might help fill in the gaps in yours.

Sorry, but I'd run a mile from that lot.

None of those things are unusual or should prevent a sale especially if you've had (as you should) a survey. Indemnity insurance is very common. I'm was a conveyancing solicitor for 5 years.

No no no and no.

I bought a property without the correct documents once. Nightmare from start to finish, and had to sell it at a loss to get rid of it.

How old is the missing deed. It’s pretty common for deeds to be lost. The Land Reg dematerialised deeds and went electronic. Once deeds were scanned they were destroyed. Some weren’t properly captured. Or it could have been lost, it’s likely not of any real concern. Your solicitor will ask for missing title deeds indemnity, which will offer some comfort to you. Speak to them about it.

Same token, nobody is bothered about breach of old restrictive covenants not to build. Unless it’s recent I wouldn’t be concerned.

Gas Cert/building regs for Boiler installation- your local search should show an entry if it has building regs. This is sufficient evidence of building regs and you do not need to see the physical certificate.

If it hasn’t got building regs it’s prudent to ask for a gas safety check just to ensure it’s in good working order, these are about £50 so pay for it yourself if needs must. A drop in the ocean when buying a home!

Planning permission - it’s outside the enforcement period for the planning authority so nobody cares. There’s no repercussions now.

Lastly, OP talk to your solicitor. I find it so infuriating reading posts like this and the absolute garbage replies. Your solicitor will be able to explain the consequences of each point and the risk involved.

20 years ago? It’s unlikely to be an issue even if they did not have permission.

The reason it could be important is that it makes it harder for you to sell when you want to. It can decrease the mortgage valuation, making it much harder for a prospective buyer to get a mortgage on it.
Having sold recently, this is exactly what I was thinking too.

Okay So I checked the council website and found the planning permissions from 2006 and recent planning application(2020) also mentions that the garage was built in 1986 ( I guess along with the house only ).

Thank you for your help and letting me know I can find planning applications online. We feel like we as buyers doing half of the work which solicitors and sellers are supposed to do.

For covenants consent for 2006 planning permission I guess we will ask seller to provide the indemnity Insurance. Hope all goes well.

@Bloodyhamabeads

The reason it could be important is that it makes it harder for you to sell when you want to. It can decrease the mortgage valuation, making it much harder for a prospective buyer to get a mortgage on it. Having sold recently, this is exactly what I was thinking too.

The mortgage valuation is totally independent of title issues. It looks at the state and condition of the property and comparable in the area. There are some title issues that will need reporting to a lender, but generally indemnity insurance is seen as adequate.

Have other houses had similar extensions? You can look on the same planning portal. Although that doesn't guarantee that yours would, it does suggest that either the beneficiary of the covenant gives permission or doesn't enforce the covenant. Obviously still request indemnity insurance.