Exchange date - elderly seller

[PurplePansy05]

Hi All. I wonder if you could share your thoughts!

We are just about to buy a property from a very elderly seller (I mean 90+). We are discussing exchange and completion dates and my question is in respect of exchange.

DH and I are a bit concerned as to what might happen if the seller was to pass away between exchange and completion. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing obvious to suggest that, apart from the natural risk of his age and the pandemic of course.

Now, I read a bit about this and I understand should that happen after the exchange but before completion, the property would still have to be sold to us and a Grant of Probate would need to be obtained - how long does it take now?

I am guessing several months? This is where my query is. I am pregnant (due this summer) and we also have dogs and cats, as you can imagine we can't exactly move in to a rented property for several months right now, it would be v difficult to even find it. We probably would rather pull out completely even if we have to pay solicitor and agent's fees and stay put in our current house. I am very worried that for example we exchange and agree completion a week later and something happens in between leaving us with nowhere to go and with difficulties with finding somewhere suitable.

What would you suggest to do re exchange, agree it very close to completion to minimise the risk of any such difficulty?

What would the seller's estate liability be towards us as well if he was to pass away after the exchange?

Sorry, I know I'm perhaps overthinking things but I am genuinely worried! TIA

It seems like your mind is set really so speak with your solicitor to chat through your options. I have acted in sales previously with clients well into their 90s, living independently and perfectly fine and if a call had come in from their buyers concerned that they were about to die for no other reason than age, then I would have laughed tbh and the client would too. By reasonable concern I mean is the seller ill, in hospital, particularly frail, is there concern from their own family that they realistically expect there is a chance of them dying in the very near future? If you are nearing an exchange/completion date just get it done ASAP - quicker you get it done, the less risk there is. If you are right at the start of the process, maybe find another property and specify that you want the seller to be of a lower age (and hope that they don't get ill/have an accident/do any extreme activities like skydiving or just change their mind and decide not to go ahead). From my own personal previous experiences of conveyancing I had very very limited cases where an elderly client died during the process or their seller/buyer died and when they did, it was a risk at the start due to personal illness. Parties pulling out for other reasons? (Changed mind/related transaction fallen through/financial situation changed/decided they don't want to buy or sell anymore) Often. Deaths in 30s/40s/50s? Sadly quite a few. Accidents in 40s/50s/60s. Again, sadly quite a few.

Thank you MrsGlitter, I agree with what you're saying but I just can't shake off that weird feeling that tells me to prepare for something like this.

Is it possible to move in to a property that is subject to probate (as in rent it till probate us granted and we can complete)?

I just wonder if this could be a potential option to negotiate with his nephew should the worst happen. I'd expect a formal agreement and in reality the seller's estate would cover the costs of the rental and our additional expenses (like increased LTT) but we may waive our right to get the full deposit. I am just mooting ideas, I know they wouldn't have to agree but I'm just wondering if this is even possible? If so surely that's the best option for everyone? And we could exchange in advance like most people, far less stressful.

I think we sort of do though. If that's what we're gonna go with (exchange & completion on the same date on the property we're buying) then we need to do the same in respect of our sale - otherwise we become liable to our buyer for pulling out after exchange and before completion OR we have to vacate our house with nowhere to go anyway, and there is no contractual obligation for our seller to sell to us or to pay compensation. That's not a good position, is it?

No, it's far from ideal - but it's shouldering the risk yourself, rather than expecting the rest of the chain to do it for no benefit to themselves...!

What is your solicitor recommending? This won't be the first time the question. Has been asked. In fact it might have happened to them in a previous transaction.

It has happened to our solicitor in a previous transaction, I spoke to her now. Unfortunately they've exchanged few weeks before completion and the seller died the day before at 83, no prior health concerns. They unfortunately had to renegotiate the completion dates, wait for GOP which took 6 weeks, but now she said she would not recommend this option at all because GOPs are taking a lot longer. Our solicitor recommended exchange the afternoon before and completion next day, with all documents signed off on exchange and this should keep the risk to the very minimum. And this is what we've proposed.

PowerslidePanda there was no need for that final comment, we're not a pair of twats, as you seem to imply, thanks. And you're incorrect, it does benefit the rest of the chain too as it offers flexibility in the event of any covid related issues anywhere in the chain too. Our solicitor specifically said that they recommend as closr e+c dates as possible to everyone now for exactly that reason so this isn't a novelty. And it is a better option than the rider which we've also discussed and concluded it's wording simply isn't practical.

@PurplePansy05 - I was overly harsh, I apologise. Just making the point that if I was lower down in your chain and asked to do this, I'd have quite a different perspective on it.

@PurplePansy05 it's great your solicitor has advised you of the risks with recent delays to probate, and has provided good advice. Good luck!

Thank you all for your advice, it's an odd issue, I know, but it seems not unheard of and our solicitor wasn't surprised with the query at all and recommended we definitely take precautions because it could turn out dire when issues can be sensibly avoided.

We'll just do the best we can to minimise the risks for everyone. I hope they'll agree to the suggested dates, it just seems a reasonable way forward. The bottom of the chain have been very much on the same page as us throughout. We also like our buyer and have no intention whatsoever to inconvenience her, in fact we've just spent few hundred quid on minor repairs that we didn't bother with before to make life easier for her. We're not out to screw anyone over.

The only problematic person throughout has actually been the seller, so we'll see what response he comes back with now!

You can exchange and complete on the same day particularly at the moment. I did so just before Christmas

Simultaneous exchange is a bit stressful and you may find that your elderly seller just won't agree to that.

If you google some articles from law firms, they'll talk you through it. Essentially the contract is in place but you have to wait for the executors/administrators to sign the transfer which is the potential delay. They can apply for an emergency grant though in those circumstances. It's not your fault so any costs wouldn't be for you to pay. They may well let you in on licence too though that depends on everyone's appetite for that.

If the seller is old but otherwise in good health then you'd be very unlucky. It does happen but fortunately rarely.