Leak

[Authenticity2020]

Hello all,

So, when DH and I moved in to our new home 4 years ago, he unfortunately flooded the shower without noticing, huge amounts of water were leaking out onto the bathroom
floor, going beneath the gaps in tiles and dripped down through to the living room underneath. Water was dripping out of the ceiling lighting fixture in the centre of the room and there were wet patches on the ceiling in two other places. We mopped up all the wet, in the bathroom, patted down the ceiling, turned up the radiators full blast and with a hairdryer too, eventually the damp went. There are still water staines on the ceiling.

About a year or two later we had the water leak via the central light fixture on the ceiling of the living. This time it wasn’t due to anything from the bathroom but it had been raining heavily. I figured it may be due to the gutters as the ones linked to the conservatory which is off the living room looked full. We had someone come clean them out straight away along with windows etc and they were of course filled with leaves, sludge and water having not been done for two years.

We kept on top of the gutters etc, and they were last all cleaned on 1 October 2020.

It rained heavily last night, nothing too crazy though and we have woken up to water once again dripping out of the light fixture on the ceiling in the living room onto the floor.

There is a small puddle, there never is much more than that but of course drips are slowly coming down off the fitting. Problematic from the obvious risk of water/electricity, damage to the ceiling and all the damage probably going on behind the scenes seeing as water has been able to leak both via the bathroom and the gutters via the conservatory.

What should we do? Can we do anything ourselves? Who can we call to investigate/sort & stop this happening?

I thought electrician due to the electrical element but that seems unlikely as it’s a water problem. Sorry I am not great on these things and would be very grateful for help or pointers in the right direction.

Thank you.

Just to add that our shower is leaking, but has been for at least a year. We have been meaning to fix it but between having a new baby and COVID, we haven’t had a chance.

The shower head and knobs are the only things visible. The body of the shower is behind tiles which would need to be removed (they would break). When we had quotes to fix the shower no one could find any other ways to access the shower. The whole bathroom is tiled so if the shower is replaced we will also need to redo the whole bathroom and tiling. Our toilet flusher is also currently broken and sink keeps getting blocked, so we reasoned that we would replace the whole bathroom post COVID restrictions. We only have one toilet and so would need somewhere to go if we had it done now and with restrictions that isn’t possible or sensible.

Finally, we could perhaps claim on home insurance to investigate the source of water or possibly call British Gas as we have homecover. They were the ones that told us our shower leaking (they said it was only leaking outside into the shower cubicle, not
behind then scenes, drips come out of the knobs that turn shower on and off but DH and I hadn’t noticed). Homecover does not cover showers so if it is the shower to blame for all of it, or just for this occasion of leak, then they presumably won’t help.

Now I am wondering what the true cause of each of the leaks. It could still be the gutters.

Thanks again.

Without knowing the design of your house it would be impossible to say , but it is possible that the roof / gutter is leaking and it’s running down behind the shower ? So it looks like it’s the shower leaking ?

Sometimes when it comes to leaks they can be a nightmare to find .

Our shower leak came from the pump, fortunately in the airing cupboard behind the controls so accessible. Another from an unsealed overflow pipe on the bath. We also had a slow leak from a heating pipe where a nail was in contact and corroded it - floor needed to come up to find and replace it. Unless there is an obvious issue with roof it is more likely to be internal. Insurance often only covers the damage not the source, and rarely if due to maintenance issues.

if your house is very badly built, I suppose it's possible that a rainwater pipe has been attached to a pipe or hopper for the bathroom. or vice-versa.

if an addition or conservatory was very badly built there might be a gutter or downpipe inside the house.

@LIZS @PigletJohn @Chumleymouse

Thank you for your replies. Well, the shower leaks almost constantly so I don’t know if that means it could be connected to rainwater that would collect in the gutters? But it is a possibility. Gosh. Is a plumber my best bet here? Rather than say a roofer!’

In terms of layout, the bathroom, specifically the shower is the closest thing over the ceiling light in the living room. And the living room is connected to the conservatory, so it is also close to the upstairs bathroom. Ugh.

Whenever a workman visits the house the commentary is always that something has been badly put together. I think the people that lived here did up a lot of the house as a DIY job. Don’t get me wrong, it’s way better than what I could do, but we’ve run into so many problems. Like the toilet which was fully glued to the wall, including the whole of cistern and the lid. Therefore to try to change parts is impossible and needs to be ripped off!! Along with the tiles.

Water will find the lowest and weakest point, so often leaks through light fittings or where plasterboard joints are.

Look at the sealant round the shower tray. If it's going / gone black that could be where waters going through. Was in mine anyway. Easy fix

Sounds like the shower needs investigating first.
The concealed shower mixer should be able to be serviceable from inside the shower for everything except (from your description) the actual pipe connections, post a photo and I'll be able to advise.
The tray may need resealing, likewise the trap.
You need a plumber or a good handyman.

Once you've sorted what you know is an issue and can rule it out and you'll have a better idea where to look for any continuing problem.

@LIZS @Surplus2requirements @Toomanycats99

Thanks for your input.

So, yes the sealant around the shower tray is partially missing and a bit has gone black. We have had bad mould for four years and only recently installed an extractor fan which makes about a 75% improvement on the mould growth. That said, it’s been like that for a while so I don’t feel like that is the reason? But it’s definitely something to look at.

So DH sat and worked out the timeline for this mess.

Jan 2017 was the initial accidental flooding of the bathroom when in shower and water leaking through to ceiling living room downstairs.

November 2018 is when we had sudden leaking through the ceiling. This was discovered in the morning. It was after rainy weather overnight. Gutters cleaned, problem solved.

June 2019 just before my due date we had the diverter valve on our boiler fixed as the house was heating up every time the shower came on, despite thermostat being off. I forgot this key info: the guy who did that told us that our shower was leaking, slowly dripping via the knobs and it was evidenced by watermarks under the controls. He said the cold water from the mixer shower is constantly running

I think we had another incidence of the leak in the living room and put it down to the gutters. They were cleaned, no problems. Since then we have them regularly done.

Jan 2021 same leak problem, but gutters were cleaned October 2020 so in theory should be OK.

We dont get the leaking during the day, so we kept a close eye last night after another night of heavy rain and it only seems to be in the morning right after DH has finished his shower. It drips and creates a puddle on the floor and then stops. I have my shower later and it doesn’t seem to happen.

There is no rain tonight so we shall see if that makes any difference. Gutter clear is happening again later tomorrow.

It looks like the two could be linked, the rainfall/gutter and broken shower.

Does this information help?

If this is the case, baring in mind we want to replace the whole bathroom but we only have access to one and Covid is happening... should we start with a plumber?

I have seen companies advertise that they use special equipment to determine leaks. Are they likely to be good?

@Surplus2requirements pic of the shower os this what you meant to take photo of? TIA

Do your shower and gutter feed to the same downpipe? We had an issue with a gutter where the down pipe joined a feed to a waterbut. I think the ridge in the pipe accumulated debris causing a partial blockage.

So maybe that has happened and when you have rain and shower combined it cannot cope? So gutter looks clear but blockage is further down?

The grouting doesn't look in particularly good condition either. You may need to consider redoing the shower unit. Does any water escape onto the floor from screen/curtain?

@Authenticity2020 yes the shower unit is accessible.
The knobs remove and the cover plate pulls off allowing seals and thermostat to be replaced. Leak dripping off the knobs may be dripping behind the tiles inside the wall as well.
Even the pipe connections should be accessible.

If anyone isn't aware of that DO NOT let them work on it!

The seal around the shower drain and drain connections need to be checked, quick and straight forwards for anyone that knows how they go together.
Check where the drains run for a possible back up problem linked to rainwater BUT if the shower drain was properly sealed you would have water rising in the tray not dripping through the ceiling.
Reseal tray/tile edge. Any missing sealant is an easy way for large quantities of water getting where it shouldn't (This is worth considering making a bit of a hash of yourself if you can't get anyone out for a while because the old sealant will need to be cut out anyway to redo properly)

As said a plumber or good handyman (person?) if you know one.

@Toomanycats99 that’s exactly what it feels like. We had our window & gutter cleaner over and he said all the pipes, included downpipe were clear. We do not live next to large trees so he says not many leaves up there. We turned on the shower and he noted that the water did not come out of the downpipe. He thought it sounded more like the problem was the shower.

However, since the gutters etc were cleaned out - once again we have no problem with the leaking through the living room ceiling light, despite heavy snow and rain since.

Whereas before the gutter was cleaned out, the days we had rain we would have a leak post-shower. The one day it did not rain, there was no leak post-shower. And now it’s cleaned out, no leaks at all. Something definitely gets lodged and causes it but obviously it shouldn’t be coming into the house.

There is definitely a connection there with the outside gutters and shower. Thanks all.

@LIZS yes the grouting is bad and the sealant definitely needs replacing around the shower but also on the floor. There is a sliding glass door but there is potential for water to fall onto the floor and the grouting there is also poor.

@Surplus2requirements thanks for confirming. The plumber suggested the tiles would break, but perhaps he was hoping that if the tile did break we would need to then redo our whole bathroom? As our entire bathroom is tiled floor to ceiling. Hmm! As it turns out, this plumber no longer refits bathrooms and thank goodness. We will not use him.

When you say the seal around the shower drain, would someone need to take up the shower tray to check?

If not, then we will give a go with some squeezy bottle silicone. You are right, a hash job will at least seal it until we can get everything replaced. We have tube version but no caulk gun.

If someone would need to take the shower tray up (and so remove the silicone) then we may as well get them to also replace it.

Our handyman doesn’t touch showers but we will need to find a reputable plumber!!

Thanks for your reply and sorry for the delay in mine.

@Authenticity2020 the seal around the drain itself is accessed by unscrewing the trap assembly from above. If the drain connections from the trap are leaking the tray will need to come up.
The most likely issue is the seal between the tray and wall tiles