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Estate Agent caught on camera

95 replies

Tickledyellowish · 18/01/2021 07:18

Our house has been on the market since early November and progress has been slow. I have to chase for any sort of information. It feels like they don't actually want to sell our house. We have only had 3 viewings in nearly 3 months so they are not doing much. We are open to advice, have dropped the price once and would take contrive feedback if we were lucky enough to get it.
We have a video doorbell at the front of the house and a kitchen camera which is set up for our puppy, and we have snuck a peek at these to get an insight into the viewings. Whilst I am confident that there is no legal issue here (it's our private property) it does feel a little imoral. However, it has meant that i have seen the estate agent turn up 10 mins late to viewings, park his car on the only driveway space so visitors can't park anywhere, introduce our lovely home by showing them the inside of our very cluttered garage. I have heard conversations about our house which fail to show it in it's best light and comparisons with cheaper properties that fail to show a proper understanding of what us on offer. I'm really annoyed about it and i feel let down. I honestly think and i could have done a better job myself.
The thing is, do I let on that I've seen and heard these things? I feel like making them squirm a bit, or should I just quit anyway and leave quietly?
I am going to end my contract with them either way.
Thanks for your thoughts.

OP posts:
C8H10N4O2 · 18/01/2021 09:53

I have checked my rights and I am legally allowed to record my own property. It's public places that you have to put signs up...very different

Check again. You are bringing people inside your property to conduct business. They have a right to know that they are being filmed and what you do with that data.

FWIW 25K would absolutely explain the difference between a house untouched for 20 yrs and one maintained and kept up to date. However as PP say - I might choose to buy the cheaper one and do it up myself.

SoupDragon · 18/01/2021 09:53

I'll not be reading any more threads on this

Bit weird.

PropertyThreads · 18/01/2021 10:03

I used to be an estate agent (I'm not a wanker, I'm a nice person Wink) and my rule (for myself and staff training) was always act as if you're being recorded. This was pre video door bells but I used to imagine undercover reporters for Dispatches or similar Grin (I didn't work for Foxtons btw - we were a good agency but still!)

The amount of viewings I did where it was the vendors undercover relatives or friends "trying to catch me out" was interesting. People did also record us on pocket dictaphone things. Interestingly vendors used to admit it afterwards - I think they felt guilty about it as they didn't find anything unprofessional.

From an EA POV, if I found out the vendor had recorded a viewer without consent, I would terminate the contract. Everyone assumed EAs are knobs but clients can also be knobbish (as hopefully people can see from this thread Wink)

Anyone trying to sell, I would totally recommend an anonymous MN "feedback my house" thread as you get great advice (and fuck me, some agents photos are appalling!)

PS I would never park on a drive but 99% of late views are from the viewers as lots of people schedule in full days of viewing various properties and run late.

Middle123 · 18/01/2021 10:03

If I was viewing a property I wouldn’t even think of parking my car on the driveway, so I don’t really see why you have an issue with the agent parking there. In fact, when we viewed the house that we currently live in, we parked out on the road even though the driveway has enough space for 3 cars.

Also, the garage I don’t see an issue with either. I wouldn’t be shocked at seeing an untidy garage, you should see the state of mine! And when we were selling our previous property, I was more than happy to show our buyers the garage, to show them all the different storage possibilities that our property had to offer.

As for your camera, you do need to make people aware there is CCTV on the property. A sign on the front window would probably suffice.

As for number of viewings, probably to do with price. Look at what the sold prices are for similar properties in your area, particularly your street if you can find a recent sale.

AcornAutumn · 18/01/2021 10:05

[quote MarieG10]@PicsInRed

"You recorded them without their permission or warning so legally I should imagine you're on shaky ground?"

What law has the Op broken having a camera in her property. People do it all the time. Suggest you look on the ICO website[/quote]
So when I go to someone's home, I need to ask if they have cameras?

Christ, the world.

SaltyTootsieToes · 18/01/2021 10:07

When we sold our house where the EA was doing the viewings, we agreed the route they would take.

Our garage was locked but dimensions on the floor plan - floor plan was on line as well as in the brochure. I told our EA that I was locking it as that is where it put all sorts to store so as to have valuables locked away and clutter out of the house. Upon second viewings it was open. I viewed other homes where the garage was locked (sheds and garden studios locked too). Not something unusual

I suppose as EA was 10 minutes late, the potential buyers would already be there and chose not to park in your house. We always moved the cats so our driveway was completely open - and my DH wanted us to sit in the car, with the dog too, to watch abd see who came, what they drive, what time EA showed up and how long they stayed in the house. Weird thing was, no one ever parked on the driveway and it has two entrances fitting 5 cars. Never understood why no one parked on the drive.

My DH also set up a ring camera purposefully to watch what happened in the viewings. I thought it was horrible thing to do. Difference being, DH bought and set up just for this purpose. We (myself abd kids) kept putting something over it when we were in the main room as we didn’t want to be recorded or listened to. He soon packed it away after that.

However, if you have a CCTC sign up, tell him you’ve watched your security take and what you saw. I am not sure, but I think as long as you’re not recording your neighbours private land outside and if you have a cctv sign of some sort letting people inside your home know they’re in cctv, you’re allowed to do this so by all means tell the EA what you saw

With that said, if you only had 3 viewings, don’t think it’s the estate agent. Give notice and move to another agent. Do tell them the route you want them to use, not to park in the driveway and to tell viewers they can park there AND tell them you have a ring doorbell and cctv, you can say it’s included in price of the house so it comes across as an asset but it’s also letting them know you’ll be watching

I do think anyone with cctv in their home would watch the recording of a viewing. To me, it’s about knowing you’re being recorded

Oreservoir · 18/01/2021 10:07

@LM20 would you turn a house sale down because of cameras?
Surely not. And what on earth would an EA be doing in a clients house that they wouldn’t want filmed?

PropertyThreads · 18/01/2021 10:09

A lot of people worry about security and safety of the area if they see CCTV signs. Anecdata but it makes sense. You can't exactly say "yeah I'm only recording it to see how my estate agent behaves" Smile

LaBellina · 18/01/2021 10:10

I would find a new real estate agent but not bring up why you're being done with the current one. It has no added value for you (it's no longer your problem that they're shit at doing their job) and it could have possibly negative legal consequences for you. Also, what if he takes revenge and starts shit stirring by calling his collegues in the field that you're some kind of weirdo that spies on their real estate agent (you're not a weirdo and I completely agree with you but they'll hear only his side of the story). Nope, would avoid this at all cost and just tell them you've decided to find a new real estate agent because they haven't managed to sell your home yet. No further explanation needed.

PropertyThreads · 18/01/2021 10:10

"And what on earth would an EA be doing in a clients house that they wouldn’t want filmed?"

Oh, you'd be surprised! (Also what EAs see in properties too Shock)

Walkaround · 18/01/2021 10:12

Of course £25k is not a lot more for the work done, it’s just a lot more money full stop. I would rather save up to do my own kitchen than have someone else’s idea of a nice kitchen for 20 years.

SmallestInTheClass · 18/01/2021 10:15

As someone viewing your house, I wouldn't want to be being filmed inside. I don't think it's normal, and I'd probably ask if the camera could be turned off. Outside is a bit different as there is often CCTV, but I wouldn't expect it to be recording me without my knowledge and for the owners to be able to listen back to all my comments while inside a home. I expect the agent isn't that bothered as they don't think they are going to sell your house (based on so few viewings). They tend to put their effort into the ones they know will sell easily and they can get their money! I wonder if it's the photos or the price putting people off. I'd probably try a new agent and see what they think about price and the way it's presented.

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 18/01/2021 10:19

I'll not be reading any more threads on this...

I felt like that but was strangely drawn to continue and now I just can't stop. Shock

GypsyLee · 18/01/2021 10:21

@PicsInRed

You recorded them without their permission or warning so legally I should imagine you're on shaky ground?

I would quietly end the contract and be clear on expectations with the next.

You don't need permission. It isn't illegal. I know because we recorded Social Services recently, 3 ended up in a tribunal so I'm glad we did.
Walkaround · 18/01/2021 10:22

Photos make a huge difference. Some photos used by estate agents are rubbish! And someone asking why your house is £25k more when looking around it indicates that it isn’t obvious where the money went - so what is wrong with the kitchen and flooring, etc? It’s normally pretty obvious why an end of terrace with bigger garden, new boiler, new kitchen and expensive flooring costs more (unless you hate the taste and want to rip it all out and do it again yourself).

kirinm · 18/01/2021 10:26

@LM20

OP as an Agent myself the behaviour from the Agent this is unacceptable but you are on very shaky ground to be listening and recording not only the agent but third party visitors. You do not have their permission and some would consider this a very serious breach of their privacy.

Frankly if I was your agent I wouldn’t want to sell your property if you deem this acceptable and want to use it to cancel your contract.

Ps... Agents talk to other Agents. They’ll let others know about your videoing tactics.

It isn't a "video tactic" it is security cameras. If an estate agent doesn't understand that security cameras are on pretty much permanently or doesn't understand what a "ring" doorbell is, maybe they aren't such "experts" anyway.

Any normal person can see a ring doorbell ffs.

NastyBlouse · 18/01/2021 10:28

Morally I think you're in the wrong recording people without their consent. But then an individual's moral standing or failing is their own business, and everyone's is different.

Legally it's a grey area, and is subdivided into data protection considerations, and privacy considerations. You have made it greyer still by a) including sound in the recording and b) not informing people in advance that they are being recorded.

Data protection and privacy laws do apply to private individuals too. Although the Data Protection Act 2018 (which mirrors GDPR, even though GDPR no longer applies in the UK) largely covers recordings outside a domestic boundary. This might cover the doorbell cam (depending on the angle and how much outside your boundary it records), but not the puppy cam. So the ICO isn't your primary source of guidance, actually.

The law is murky on this, but the basic tenet of domestic CCTV centres around you operating the system in a responsible way that protects the privacy of others. If questioned, could you demonstrate that your recordings are a) responsible; b) reasonable; and c) protective of the privacy of others?

Basically, you are allowed to record your own conversations in your own home. If you're recording and you are not there in person i.e. on the footage and other parties haven't given consent beforehand, I think you're potentially on shakier ground.

Domestic CCTV is covered and regulated by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. This is more to do with privacy laws than data protection.

You are entitled to record to 'protect your property'. And I'd argue that it's not unreasonable for an estate agent to expect to appear on doorbell cams, external CCTV, nanny cams and puppy cams from time to time.

However, you have potentially violated the privacy rights of the viewers of your house by recording them without their knowledge. Especially if the footage includes sound recording. They have privacy rights, even within your house. And possibly data protection rights, from the doorbell cam (depending on how much footage outside your domestic boundary it covers).

And if the recording could be considered to be harassing, anti-social or intimidating, that could be a criminal matter.

Furthermore, because you have instructed an estate agent to conduct business on your property, and they are carrying out viewings as part of their job, the lines between private and public/commercial become further blurred. This might open you up to some of the data protection requirements that you believe to only apply to businesses. (This one's a grey area too, I believe.)

If you want to continue recording people, I think you need to be very clear upfront that this is what you're doing. Then estate agents and viewers alike can make an informed decision about entering your property. That would also be the moral thing to do.

I wouldn't care that you had cameras running in your home as long as I knew about it in advance. If I found out later that you'd been recording me without my knowledge or consent, I'd be extremely pissed off, and would probably seek to make a privacy violation complaint.

If you think the estate agent has acted improperly, just change estate agents. You have the freedom and the right to do this. Be clearer with the new one that your puppy cam and doorbell cam will be recording them, and by extension viewers. I think that if you produce the footage as proof of a poor job to the current estate agent then you will open yourself up to potential legal action. The law might ultimately come down on your side, but you'd likely have to spend a lot of money arguing that case. And who needs the hassle when you're trying to sell a house?

wildraisins · 18/01/2021 10:30

I think it was a bit weird of you to record people without their knowledge. I would feel very uncomfortable with that, even if I were an estate agent showing someone around a house.

Surely you could have just mentioned to the estate agent that the camera is on at all times, and they would have to be OK with it, as you say it's your property. Might make them do their job a bit better as well!

My advice would be don't bring it up with them as it's not fair that you recorded them. Just find a new company and tell them that you are recording. They will probably be more professional.

kirinm · 18/01/2021 10:32

@Butchyrestingface

However, what I have learned is that you need to know your product. We live on an estate, where there are a collection of houses all the same design as ours. The Agents took one on around the corner that was £25k cheaper and I quizzed them about this as I didn't think this would help our situation

It would never in a million years occur to me to 'quiz' an agent about other property they took on.

Is it the norm to do this? Confused

If you know a similar house is on for less money and actually want to sell, wouldn't you question why they are valuing yours for more? I could put my house on the market for £600k but if there is a similar one up the road for £550k I'd like to know why they think it is worth that extra. If they've over valued it, it isn't going to sell.
user1497207191 · 18/01/2021 10:36

Is it "the" estate agent showing people round or do they use viewers to do it? Viewers are often paid around minimum wage and aren't really interested whether they sell or not. Perhaps the real estate agent (i.e. the owner) doesn't realise how poor their viewer is at their job?

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 18/01/2021 10:38

I think you could say you were reviewing the camera footage as you regularly do, to ensure there is no suspicious activity around your home (Neighbourhood Watch member, maybe) and discovered these behaviours that way.

I think it would be reasonable to mention to the EAs why you are choosing to go elsewhere, but only after you've cancelled your contract with them.

Silvercatowner · 18/01/2021 10:45

That I might be filmed looking round someone's house makes me feel very uncomfortable.

bobbojobbo · 18/01/2021 10:51

What law has the Op broken having a camera in her property. People do it all the time. Suggest you look on the ICO website

Suggest you do. She had someone working in her home and filmed them without letting them know they would be filmed...that's illegal.

Carefree1 · 18/01/2021 10:51

If you’re going to end your contract, then there isn’t much point in bringing it up to be honest.
Having been an estate agent previously, it wouldn’t be a surprise to show a potential buyer the garage - they want to view the whole property, not just part of it.
RE the feedback they could be shielding you from it if it’s particularly harsh. Remember not everyone has the same view on what a good house looks like - it’s likely that despite your immaculate decor, they want to change a lot to their taste. What you should also do is get price related feedback, a house is only worth what someone is prepared to pay.
Also, an estate agent will always take on another listing despite being in the same area. It also means you can ‘piggy back’ viewings.
Good luck with a new agent OP. In the meantime, be there for viewings if you prefer.

NastyBlouse · 18/01/2021 11:05

Suggest you look on the ICO website

The ICO covers data protection, but domestic CCTV considerations are also covered by privacy legislation. Privacy and data protection are two distinct things.

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