Side return extension - I want, he doesn't!

[Skylucy]

We live in a fairly typical Victorian terrace in a conservation area. We're trying to solve the age-old issues of a dark 'middle' of the ground floor and disjointed living/kitchen/dining areas.

We will open up the dining room and kitchen and hopefully extend the current WC into a utility room (dreamy!)

Of course, every architect is mooting a side return extension. This would give us acres of space , and if glazed well, bags of light.

So I'm pro!

But DH is anti. He's totally in love with our side access! To be fair, he's a keen (and muddy) trail runner and we have 2 DC and a mad dog. We have no parking and our front 'garden' is minute, so can't harbour the bins. So if we lost side access, you'd only be able to get into the garden via the house.

What does everyone do?! It seems nuts to me, to consider forking out for a lot of work or possibly even a 'mini extension' without using all the space we have.

Or, do we just rework the internal space? In which case, we probably don't need an architect, do we?

Argh. Your wisdom please wise MNers!

This is specifically what you have to pose to the architect though: we have toyed with a side return but we must still have garden access/or a solution to bins and running gear. It's down to them to come up with something that fits that brief. For eg, a new porch/boot room/utility in the front could solve the coming home with mucky gear issue...

We had a side return done - DH didn't want it done at the time but never would have been a good time for him. In the end we got it done and I have no regrets at all - it's made such a difference to our space.

Could you compromise and buy a locker for the front to store the bikes in?

If you're mid-terrace how do you currently get to the garden? Through next doors?

Can you post a floorplan - how wide is the side return?

If you did the side return, I assume it would only be at the back of the house, ie the bit next to the kitchen, so the front part of the side passage would still exist (and could be used for bins and bikes). Obviously it wouldn’t lead to the garden though.

What does the side access to the garden get used for at the moment? You say DH is a trail runner but what’s that got to do with the garden...?? (Am I missing something) Muddy kids and dogs, is it really any better if they come into the house via the kitchen rather than the front door? Personally I’d prefer to have bits of mud dropped in the hall than the kitchen...

You need a tunnel 😉

Surely whatever the arrangement, there'll still be a back door. Is there no back gate?

If you can then only get into the garden by going through the house you are going to have to trail everything through the house.
It’s a no from me.
And consider trying to sell the house with no back access. I wouldn’t buy it,

What are the architects’ solutions for the bins? is the side passage wide enough to hold the bins and also get past?

We need a floor plan!

We have a similar situation. Would never give up the side access in a million years. But we garden, have bikes round that way, bins etc. So it is well-used

Hello! We're doing this atm - we've just kept 70cm width side access and extended up until that point. We've also added a door from the utility so you can enter it from the side access to address the muddy boots problem. If you DM me I can send you a screenshot of the plan?

Thanks everyone! Questions....

We can't do anything at all to the front of the house (such as porch/bin shed etc.) because it's a tiny space and the conservation area rules are highly restrictive. We also can't store anything in the side passage as it's quite narrow and shared with our neighbours.

Yes @LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett it's totally an architect's challenge, but I currently have a stubborn DH who's telling potential architects that the side return is off limits! Sigh.

@titchy We access the garden through the back doors in the kitchen or via the side access.

@minipie I don't yet have a floorplan that shows the width of the side access. Yes, you're quite right, we could have a wider (to boundary) extension at the back of the house, meaning we could still come in through the side access and have a bin area. It wouldn't go through to the garden and I agree, not much would be lost by that! It's quite nice to be able to come in through the side and find yourself immediately in the garden - the dog and kids can run riot! I guess the only issue we'd have is that we'd have to bring bikes and gardening stuff through the house (it's a ridiculously large garden so requires maintenance). Also I actually prefer having the mud brought into the kitchen, rather than the wooden floors and carpet of the hall/front of the house.

@AndyMurraysCat A tunnel. Fabulous. Or a bridge over the top.

@Doffodils Well yes of course we can always access the garden through a back door! No, no back gate (we back onto a river).

@FippertyGibbett It's not ideal but I'm actually not worried about affecting the resell potential/value of the house. It's a beautiful Victorian home in a lovely area, and no parking/no side access is super common around here.

@NeurologicallySpeaking yes, that sounds like us too.

@Juno231 Oh that sounds great, yes please I'll DM you!

Also I actually prefer having the mud brought into the kitchen, rather than the wooden floors and carpet of the hall/front of the house.

Ah fair enough, we have a tiled hallway which stands up to anything - thank goodness as we are fully terraced so have no choice but to come in the front!

TBH it sounds like you rather like the side passage too! I think in your shoes I would keep it - as per pp it can be just 70cm at the back to allow access, the rest of the width can be added to the kitchen.

Remember if you extend right up to the boundary and your neighbour does too, you will become terraced rather than semi detached as you are currently.

Also side access is a huge selling point for some even if most houses don’t have it (in fact especially if most don’t)

But then so is a wider kitchen than most!

Just cobbled together a floorplan.
Good points, thanks @minipie

Ok, so in that scenario I would

a) keep enough for a side passage to the garden - 70 cm or so

b) extend the dining room and kitchen to the side, but not extend behind the loo - that space can then become where you keep the bins and biks.
If you need the loo to be bigger to become a utility, steal space off the dining room rather than extending the loo sideways.

What I meant was that muddy dogs and husbands presumably have to come through the front door now so you wouldn't be losing any direct garden access because you don't have any!

Or are you end of terrace and you can walk round the side of your house and come in where the red arrow is? In which case how about extending to the side of the kitchen, but leaving the side of the dining room as self-contained bin/bike/whatever store?

How dark is the play room currently? Have you considered a partial side return extension to preserve light to the middle of the house (ie just the current kitchen). The risk of side return extensions is creating space at the rear at the expense of usable space in the middle.

Alternatively, if you go down the side return route, the playroom could become toilet/utility as these rooms need ventilation but not light.

@titchy - well no, they currently come through the side passage and through the side access into the garden. You're right in your second paragraph but we're still mid-terrace - that arrow is the exit of a shared passage/tunnel between our house and next door.

Thanks @minipie and @NeedsImprovement01 - yes, a 'partial' side return could be an option.

[quote Skylucy]@titchy - well no, they currently come through the side passage and through the side access into the garden. You're right in your second paragraph but we're still mid-terrace - that arrow is the exit of a shared passage/tunnel between our house and next door.

Thanks @minipie and @NeedsImprovement01 - yes, a 'partial' side return could be an option.[/quote]
Got it!

In which case a partial side return full in as I and mini pie suggested. Leaving access from the passage to the bit at the side of the dining room and loo.

With your idea, where would you store your bins?

Agree with your dh that the side return is useful. But you could build out to the width of the dining room and have a 10x26 foot kitchen/diner with room for a sofa which would be fabulous

Something like this?

Access via side passage into utility room, leaving space for bikes and bins. Then full-width extension to the rear. OK no direct back garden access but it solves most problems like muddy digs & husbands. Gardening landscaping stuff doesn’t happen frequently enough to warrant not using the space I’d think?

That looks great NoSquirrels that’s exactly what I’d do (though personally I’d have one big kitchen diner at the back rather than 2 rooms)

Muddy people/dogs could come in via utility and strip off there, so no need for access all the way to garden for that - OP squeeze a shower in if you can!

However it depends how much OP and family value having access all the way to the garden, for things like garden waste or sending the dog straight through to garden after a walk

How about flip it round so the kitchen is at front where current living room is. Open it up to playroom (or is that a massive chimney?) which becomes dining room. Make playroom a massive utility / mud/boot room (I have one of these and is life changing!) with outdoor access through there. Widen and perhaps extend kitchen into larger living space. Do you need a playroom? If your garden is massive presumably you can go further back and any extension that way would be well lit. The rooms with poor light would then be the dining room and utility which don’t need a lot natural light. Keep a small access down the side. Or put your dining table in the front bay window and the kitchen in the playroom with lots of downlights.