Probably going to miss the SD holiday due to our buyers, advice please

[gebs]

Hi all.
We are purchasing a property and in the middle of a chain, there are first time buyers purchasing our home and we made an offer on a property beginning of Oct last year.
The property we were purchasing was OIEO, when we made our offer, we offered 10k over the asking price as there was another interested party (their house was on the market but not sold so we were in the better position) wanting to move before April 1st due to stamp duty.
However now we are in the middle of Jan and the sellers have still not found a property (apparently actively looking) and it's not looking likely they will be able to complete by April and we will have to shell out an extra 11k in stamp duty.
We've spoken to our estate agent and has suggested we could offer a little extra to put the sellers in rented ASAP so we get in before the deadline or we could lower our offer as they've cost us money by not progressing. However this is a strong stance and we obviously don't want to lose the house with any rash actions. But it feels like we are paying extra because the sellers have not found a place and we are also getting pressure from our buyer as they are in a position to move quickly.
What would you do? Swallow the 11k extra as this is a SD holiday anyway and we'd be paying this any other time pre c-19 or would you try negotiate a reduction? And how would you word it if so? Thank you if you've made it this far!!

Sorry the title should be due to the seller rather than our buyer!

Sorry, just to clarify, you offered on a house at the beginning of Oct with a condition of completion by end of March, but the sellers still haven't found anywhere to buy yet? Or did you just assume that by the end of March was the plan?

Either way, I would be wanting to put a rocket up the sellers. You have been beyond patient so far. My concern is that they aren't actually committed to selling at all. You can eiter threaten to pull out if they don't find somewhere by x time, or say your offer is reduced by £11k if they don't complete by end of March. There are risks doing this, but there is also currently a very real risk that they are just stringing you along.

Also, even if you're sellers found a house today, I can't imagine they are going to be able to complete by end of March, so your only chance of making the SD holiday is if they break the chain somehow.

The EA suggested YOU stump up extra for the sellers to move into rented?! Cheeky fucker. Tell them you expect them to move into rented by the agreed deadline. There's no way they will complete on a new place even if they find it today.

Hi, thanks for your reply, yes when we made the offer we were clear to the estate agent we wanted to complete before March. To be fair to the seller - we've had two lockdowns and Xmas but we've been very patient and not wanting to rock the boat and lose the house. But now I'm feeling like they have cost us another 11k because of no movement.

You must really love the house then! The reduction suggestion of at least 11k would be another of my avenues, they're screwing you about

Are the sellers prepared to move into rented at all? The agents may suggest offfering a sweetener, but have they discussed this in principle with the seller? Because it's probably not the money but the total hassle of doing that. If you will be losing £11k by missing the SD deadline, the property is valuable enough that a month or two's rent is probably not the issue. My guess is that they've got no intention of moving into rented. Is there a way you can find out, before offering extra money?

You simply put a date on it and be clear that you expect the chain to complete then.
When they reply that they have no Hosue purchase to go to, you are clear that you expect them to rent then.

Similar situation with us, but not due to stamp duty. We offered in the September, full asking price, with a term that we would complete by end of January as that was when our rental lease was up. The seller hadn't found a house by end of Jan and so we negotiated a reduction in our original offer, to compensate us paying rent for an additional 3 months. Fortunately our landlord was accommodating and agreed to a short rental extension, but I didnt see why we should be paying rent that we didn't budget for purely bc the buyer didn't keep to the one term of the agreement.

If I were you OP I'd dig my heals in; the seller needs to be out by the agreed time or they agree to an 12k reduction in your offer.

*11k

If completing by March was a formal condition of the offer I would give them notice now that if completion isn't achieved by X date you will drop your price by £11k. If it was just a discussion with the agent, but not officially agreed then I would do the same but be willing to negotiate some kind of sweetener to get them into rental if needed.

I would want a reduction and would not be paying for them to into rented. Why reward their lack of motivation and apathy. If they want to go into rented then they can pay?!

Was the condition of completion by March 31st put on the memorandum of sale?

Are you willing to pull out if they don't, or if they won't drop the price? If they know how much you want it they may not be in a hurry...and there are so few houses at the moment. We ended up moving in with family when we couldn't find anywhere in time - we were so worried about losing our buyers. I'm not sure yours sound as worried? We also had an offer on a house to buy - which we had to reduce for various reasons - but you can only reduce your offer if you're prepared for it not to be accepted.

Personally I would say if not completed by March I would drop by offer. Or maybe split the difference?

We are in a very similar position OP. It's beyond stressful. I'm just going to RTFT and then I'll write more.

You are allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. You paid £10k above asking price and now want to pay an extra £11k?

Please don’t do this. The onus should be on the seller to solve this delay.

@Shadowboy

Was the condition of completion by March 31st put on the memorandum of sale?

No it was not, but we have made this clear to the estate agents, and with 5 months until the SD deadline we thought we'd be fine.

Some great points on here thank you - it's difficult when you are invested / really want the house to have your better judgement clouded!

Assuming you're in England, you don't have any legal recourse, irrespective of what was agreed at the time of offer.

Have you met the sellers, do you have their contact details? Speaking to them directly will give you a better idea of what their intentions are. My feeling would be that they're now waiting for prices to fall once the SD holiday ends, until they offer on anything. I could be wrong though, and they're the only ones that can confirm either way.

Yes I'd say you won't pay the £11k unless complete. Seller needs to move into rented whilst they look. Otherwise just pull out of the purchase, they're dicking you around.

You need to get exchange of contracts done asap.

So we sold our house in August, with our sellers offering us the full asking price on the proviso that we completed ASAP. We were happy with that as had offered on a property (private sale, no EA) where the sellers were separating and wanted (apparently) a swift conclusion. The seller took a month or two to find a property, and then on do doing locked us into an upward chain of about a further 3 properties.

Since the start of the process our seller's solicitor has been interminably slow, not completely responded to queries, omitted paperwork, and just generally takes three times as long as necessary to move things forward.

We've also had lots of changes going on at the upper end of the chain and just before Christmas the upper link of the chain (I think link number 7) pulled out of their purchase snd started to look for other properties.

Both we, and our buyers were in absolute despair at this point, so much do that our buyers said they'd be asking their solicitor to write a stamp duty clause into our contract.

Initially we were relatively relaxed about this, as we thought we had sufficient time to complete before April 1, and in any case we'd ask our seller to agree to the same terms to protect us and also as an incentive to progress more quickly.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, our seller 'politely declined' this offer. Therefore, due to the value of our property and the one we are buying, this would potentially leave us liable to about £30k in stamp duty over both properties, if we agreed to our buyers' request (to save the purchase) and then also had to pay the SD for the one we are buying.

Prior to the stamp duty request being made by our buyers, we had asked our EA to float breaking the chain with our seller to see if we could get moved before Christmas. She also refused that offer, and refused the offer even when we offered to pay all of her costs to move into rental.

Just before Xmas, link number 4 (so our seller's seller) clearly got fed up with all the messing about at the top of the chain, pulled out of their purchase, thereby chopping off the top part of the chain, and have since found a property with no onward chain, so we have everything crossed that we can get this over the line before April.

I have been in despair so many times over this move, we have moved 3 times before this and not one of them has been anywhere near as stressful as this.

Do you have a relationship with your sellers' OP or are you doing everything through the EA? Either way I'd ask your solicitor or EA to suggest that the sellers break the chain and that if the agreed date cannot be achieved you'll expect them to pay the SD. It's just not on. I don't know if some people are oblivious to the stress this all causes or if some of them just don't give a shit!

Apologies, longest post ever... 🤦🏼‍♀️🤣

That sounds really frustrating OP. You've obviously been very patient, too patient!
The estate agent's suggestion that you offer more for them to move into rented is cheeky. The sellers are obviously aware that you wanted to compete prior to 31st March and they have caused a long delay, either because they haven't found a house they like or because the are deliberately delaying. Either way, the responsibility is theirs.

Would you consider pulling out of this sale or moving into rented yourself and then reassessing? How much do you love the house? Are there other suitable properties on the market in your area?
In the first instance, I would email them via the EA and say that you will be reducing your offer by the £11K as they have caused a significant delay and it is now highly unlikely that the same will complete prior to the end of March.

Unless they immediately a trouble free vacant property and will not need a mortgage they now have no realistic chance of completing before Mar 31st.

I would say either they commit to moving into rental or else they accept an £11k reduction in price. Because I bet your buyers will be asking the same if the deadline is missed.

And say you need an answer by Monday or you will need to walk away. The EAs will not want to lose the sale!

They will still be getting the original ‘offers’ price anyway.

Whilst this may not be what you want to hear, the fact of the matter is that you only have any leverage if the seller is sufficiently motivated and/or has some pressing reason to move.

So, e.g. we now will only move if we find something really special in the right spot. The move only works to support a lifestyle choice. We don't have to move, so no foot stamping, threat or inducement would make me go into rented or even accept a lower offer. We simply have no need to at this point, nor a deadline to move by. (As it happens, we will likely buy before selling to avoid that scenario.)

Fingers crossed for you OP that your seller does have a compelling reason to move / hold onto their buyer.

Unfortunately if they haven't found somewhere in 5 months then they are clearly not very motivated to move or sell. They are likely the same people who keep chains hanging on for months then decide, actually, we don't want to move after all.
We lost two sales due to time wasters like this.
My advice would be to press them by all means but be prepared for them to pull out. You need to decide first though how you will proceed if they do. If you don't want to lose your buyer then I think it's you that will need to break the chain and move into a rental.