Solicitors left us in limbo no house / no money

[Nomoneyohno]

Hi, I’m hoping someone can give me some advice. My solicitors sent me the initial pack of paperwork and in this it said if it’s a joint mortgage but we want it to go to a single bank account then both parties need to sign a form which we did. The house has been sold and completed and then after completion my solicitors have decided there’s an issue with transferring the equity to a single bank account. Does anyone know if this is just them being difficult or if there’s an actual law about this? But then why would there be a form in their pack with this exact scenario which we both signed? Right now we have no house and no money either. Thanks in advance

Solicitors offer no financial advice and are under no obligation to deal with CGT. A simple general advice along the lines of 'could be liable for CGT make sure you take an accountants advice' would be sufficient to tick the box from their end.

Exactly.

At the moment, the concern is possibly coercion. I can’t see that it’s mortgage fraud.

I was trying to think of something constructive to write to hide the fact I was placemarking. I can't think of anything, so...

[quote Nomoneyohno]@Mumski45 we don’t want it split into 2 individual accounts unless the law states they absolutely can’t pay it into a single account. The family member was on the mortgage name only. No payments or money was put in by them. They have called the solicitors and signed paperwork and been into the office to prove their ID and confirmed they agree to this but the solicitors still refuse. It seems strange to me when they issued paperwork for this exact scenario asking us to sign we agree to be paid into a single account[/quote]
This is why they wont pay it into one account! Two names were stated on the legal title but you are arguing the second person has no right to the equity. There is a conflict.

@HasaDigaEebowai

No not only on mumsnet . I’m a solicitor and we have to consider this when holding funds/acting for a client

@HasaDigaEebowai

Perhaps you are. But your comment was designed to provoke worry and fear, a very keyboard warrior-Mumsnet thing to do. I hope you're kinder to your real life clients, at while you're find out the actual facts.

@MrsGlitterSparklesHun

I don't really understand how people cannot see this is potentially fraud and are being openly dismissive and rude when posters are offering sound legal advice? Free legal advice at that!

@MrsGlitterSparklesHun

You mean people CLAIMING to be solicitors. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Some posters will be simply trying to scare the OP and NO ONE on this thread knows enough of the facts to advise.

Good solicitors don't give advice on the basis of fuck all information, because it's irresponsible.

@Jeremyironseverything

Presumably this is an older relative. If a large amount of money goes through their account, and if they need care or the taxmsn looks into it, then the disappearance of this money could be seen as derivation of assets - but then so could giving away half a house that they have a mortgage on...

That's what I was thinking.

This will be my last post on here. Thank you to those who have tried to look at this logically. Those claiming to be solicitors and scare mongering, well I worry for your clients!!!!! It is NOT fraud to get a joint mortgage and only one person pay the mortgage. If at any time I was unable to pay the mortgage the other person would have paid. The mortgage has now been paid off. There is also no capital gains tax, I have checked this. There is no conflict either, a previous poster was correct that it was a parent who went on the mortgage with me. I’m sure people have older relatives who may have had a mortgage but also don’t trust doing things online and just like things black and white!!! They see it as my money as they didn’t put anything into the house so would rather it was paid to me. But even if it gets paid 50/50 and then they “gift” it back to me there wouldn’t be inheritance tax either. My solicitors made this decision to delay the money being transferred after completion and before I made any issue about it being paid to just my account. Under the solicitors regulation Authority they must have a justifiable reason to not accept written and verbal permission from both owners to get the money paid into one account and hold our money. I have said to my solicitors it can we paid into 2 accounts if there is a lawful reason but they can’t give me one. Maybe it would be easier to just get it paid to 2 accounts but I was following all their paperwork and to have this issue raised after completion is making me want to dig my heels in. The last contact was they will speak to the head of department. So they are holding the money still. Anyway like I say thanks to those who have given genuine advice. I won’t be back here again. I’m too busy committing mastermind crimes 😅

It might be wise to consult another solicitor OP. To be honest with them about the situation and see what they advise.

@Breadroll12 Hope you sort this out quickly. Posters are really weird when they give advice on Mumnet. I don't blame you for leaving the thread (even though I want to know what happens)

OP, the thread title implies that the solicitors have left you out of pocket and without a house which is a bit dramatic imo.

When did the sale complete? Most small/high street firms are likely only to have been back at work since Monday 4th. Have you been blanked when you asked what the process was or have they spent longer than a few days looking into it? If not, just ask them what the process needs to be? As others have said, accounts departments in law firms often ask a million questions which can be frustrating but the money laundering rules (not suggesting it is ML, just that that's how the rules are referred to) are strict.

If you get nowhere with them letting you know either what process they need to transfer to a sole account or what else needs to be done, then escalate it but you may well have one of the increasingly large number of junior paralegals looking after your file (not an improvement in the conveyancing process but that's a whole other subject) who get stuck if it's not standard.

When you appointed the Solicitors they will have sent you a Letter of Engagement which details the complaints/disputes procedure, including the name and contact details of the person responsible.
Follow that procedure.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is what is known as “tipping off”. In certain circumstances, if the solicitor suspects there is something illegal, they cannot make you aware of this. They can only fudge and delay until they get the all clear to proceed from the relevant organisations after reporting it.

I have been there myself (as a solicitor I have to add). It’s very awkward and difficult to manage. There are personal risks for a solicitor in breaching money laundering regulations including large fines, being removed from the Roll (struck off) or prison as mentioned by a pp.

Solicitors are not allowed to hold onto client money longer than necessary so they are potentially either breaching the account rules, are waiting for authorisation to proceed or worried about coercion and trying to resolve that. If I were you I’d be pressing them claiming a breach of the accounts rules - if they’re just crap that might make them move. If not, they might suspect something unsavoury is going on.

There’s not enough info to advise properly - you need to keep pushing your solicitor. Repeatedly if you have to.

Perhaps you are. But your comment was designed to provoke worry and fear, a very keyboard warrior-Mumsnet thing to do. I hope you're kinder to your real life clients, at while you're find out the actual facts.

And this sort of comment is why we are increasingly reluctant to try to help people on MN. I am a solicitor - a senior one and I run a law firm. I don't care whether you believe it or not. I have outlined the issues which may well include the solicitor being concerned about POCA. If you or the OP don't wish to take the information into account it is no skin off my nose and "kindness" is not a factor when explaining to the OP why her solicitor might not be handing over the money.

At the end of the day only the OP's own solicitor knows and he/she is potentially unable to explain to the OP at the moment (possibly due to the tipping off issue raised by another PP). In the normal course of things solicitors do not hold onto client money without a very good reason.

My best guess would be that its the CGT issue and the fact that paying the money into a sole account where the joint owners are not married and one did not live in the home would disguise the tax liability and the OP has said something to indicate that they do not intend to pay the tax, or that they suspect coercion.

I am no solicitor but solicitors hold the money in escrow accounts. They are held to really tight rules and do not mess around. If this solicitor is refusing to do this, then they have a concern.

It would appear the concern is about one owner not wishing the money to go through their account. If that person owns their home then there will be a capital gains tax liability, and it could get very complex very fast, with other issues at play, potentially desire to defraud the tax authorities and not declare the sale of the asset and the profit.

I assume legal/accountant advice was taken at the time of going on the mortgage in terms of what the financial impacts would be when it came to be sold? If not then this needs to be done urgently. If this is an elderly person it could be a concern over coercion and defrauding them. This seems less likely than the former though.

Only the solicitors can advise why they are not willing to do this.

[quote Nomoneyohno]**@HasaDigaEebowai* we would happily go into the office as they are allowed to have visits by appointment. @PomPomSugar* would you have a large sum of money transferred through your accounts unnecessarily that you had nothing to do with? What if that affected you in the future somehow? Some people don’t like getting involved in transactions and being responsible for large amounts of money. My family member won’t even trust buying anything online!! There’s nothing untoward it’s my money that I have paid off over the years, I can prove the money has solely come from my house, I’m just frustrated as when I have been looking this up there are things that can be done to satisfy my solicitors to transfer it to my account rather than them just saying no![/quote]
Op, there does seem to be some confusion coming from you.

Firstly legally it’s not “your” money, it’s yours and the other joint owners, your relative.
Secondly they need to have something to do with the money as they have a tax liability on their share of the profit.
The money didn’t come solely from “your house” it came from yours and yours relatives house. There was two of you owned the property. It was never solely yours.

The solicitor won’t be being underhand, the money is in an escrow account and protected. You will even get the interest. If the solicitors robbed it, you’d still get yout money, it’s protected.

But if the solicitors are concerned something illegal may be occuring. They will hold off until they are sure. It seems yours are saying rhey won’t proceed unless the other owner takes their share of the money.

If you’re not both doing something dodgey, then let them take the money. But it is their money and they can’t just give it to you. There is a tax issue there on gifts.

As said, hopefully you took advice on all this before the person went on the mortgage, and you’ve just not articulated it well.

@BluntAndToThePoint80 I was going to mention tipping off too. If they are holding onto the money and haven't explained why this is always what it flags to me.

Breadroll please do come back once you get to the bottom of it, and let everyone know what the issue was!

Good luck, I hope it gets sorted very quickly.

Yeah, definitely sounds like they're concerned about the assets being hidden by the other person. Unfortunately, whilst you and the family member may see it as solely your money, that doesn't mean the law does!