Vendor refusing access for assessment after survey

[Penguinpinata]

Slightly tearing my hair out here and wondering if anyone had good advice/words of reason.

We had a survey done on the flat we’re - hopefully - buying just before Christmas. The survey picked up quite a lot of condensation in the loft space caused by inadequate ventilation. A fair amount of the loft timbers were concealed by sheeting the vendor had put up (she used it as a painting space) so the surveyor has flagged it as a #2 priority level and recommended a proper roof inspection to see if this condensation had led to any rot and what remedial works are needed to stop the condensation. The vendor is now point blank refusing to allow access to anyone because of her fears of Covid. She is in her 70s and I am very sympathetic to her concerns but she won’t even consider allowing access to someone in a mask and gloves while she is not in the property. She wants to just FaceTime the roofer but I spoke to the surveyor this morning and she said absolutely not, as a roofer would need to get into the crawl space to check, as did the roofer we asked to quote.

Is a level 2 roof issue something that would be really concerning to you? Is there something (I realise unlikely) we could possibly suggest legally so if we did move in she would be liable for some of the cost of the work? I’m not so worried about it being something major we’d need to pull out, it’s more I just want to know what the situation is and what we might have to budget for - not least because I’m currently 7 1/2 months pregnant and our baby is going to need surgery and a lot of treatment when it’s born (this is why I’m worrying I’ve lost the ability to be reasonable!) so I’m aware we’re not necessarily going to be in a position to get masses of work done immediately on moving in.

Is there something (I realise unlikely) we could possibly suggest legally so if we did move in she would be liable for some of the cost of the work?

The easiest way to do this would be to drop your offer by the cost of the worst-case scenario. Personally, I'd give the vendor a straight choice - you drop the offer by X amount to cover yourself, or she allows the roofer in for a more accurate assessment/quote.

I wouldn't be happy to proceed under those circumstances. And not sure if I'd believe the Covid excuse either.

I'ld ask the roofer / surveyor what the worst case cost could be and then say either allow access or drop offer by that amount.

She could well be worried about covid though odd to sell your flat if you are that scared but maybe no alternative. My neighbour is in her 70s and absolutely terrified.

Thanks for your comments so far - @PowerslidePanda that seems the most sensible approach actually. Now to work out what worst case scenario would cost...

@Viviennemary I do completely believe them on that. When we viewed the property in Nov, she wasn’t allowing the EA to keep keys, she would let them in each time before she went out, and we had to take off shoes, wear gloves and a mask when we looked round then and since then, there’s been this new strain, which apparently she is very worried about. We’re in London so it is pretty bad here.

I thought I’d update on this in case anyone else had had a similar situation.

So we finally finally got agreement to let someone examine the attic after she cancelled on our first roofer at 9pm the night before, and a further second roofer (our name must be mud in the roofing world). He’s come back to say that the surveyor screwed up, the work needed is much more extensive as it’s been so poorly maintained in the attic over the years and it needs a new roof, which is not ideal.

We’re going to go back and try and negotiate a reduction - although given that the vendor looked up the roofer and emailed him the next day to tell him how much he had upset her because she thinks the roof is fine, I am not confident!

Has anyone had experience of a roof being replaced and just how much work it is? If we manage to move in I’ll be literally just about to give birth (34 weeks now) & the baby is going to need a bit of treatment so will be in and out of the hospital a lot. But we have already paid solicitor fees etc and we can’t afford to find somewhere else of a similar size when the stamp duty comes back, unless house prices really drop.

find another home.

Oh poor you what a nightmare.

Personally I wouldn't want to stress of any major works while I had a new baby let alone a poorly one.

Can the new roof be left for 6-12 months or is it too bad for that

PS Who the fuck sends an email to a tradesman to say how personally upset they are that they gave a professional opinion on a practical matter. Especially one they didn't instruct themselves! Very strange behaviour!

That’s pretty rough for you, sorry to hear it. But you could be in for a lot of unseen costs which ultimately outweigh the stamp duty holiday.
If you can get a roofer to quote for the work needed, you will be in a much better position to determine the next steps; without that and a reduction in price I would be walking away. Sorry.

I would walk away (and I am very suspicious about the sheeting being put up that happened to hide the dodgy roof).

Thanks everyone for your commiserations! She sounds absolutely batshit, tbh, the roofer said she followed him around quizzing him (so much for all her Covid fears) and when he eventually had to point out all the damage from her slapdash repairs - his words - insisting that there was nothing wrong with it. I’ve told her estate agents about her emailing him, as I’m so shocked by someone doing that to someone they don’t employ!

The roofer has quoted £15k plus VAT and we’d share that with the downstairs freeholder although we have to now alert them to all this & presumably get their agreement - it’s still in the realms of affordability for us if it costs a bit more than that. normally of course we’d get multiple quotes first but as she hasn’t let anyone into the property, I doubt we’ll be able to get more quotes in now. So I guess we ask for that reduction - a solicitor friend suggested we could also propose a retention to her instead of money off in the event she still insists there’s nothing wrong despite the roofers report - and see what she says, and prepare to walk away. Waaaah. Can’t believe we’ve wasted so much time to get to this point!

I would walk away. You have no idea if the downstairs freeholder can afford it. So unless you get enough off to fund the entire repair, plus the cost of somewhere to stay while the works are being done, I wouldn't go ahead.

Are you able to disclose to the freeholder now to ask if you bought, would they share the cost?

If so, by making sure the seller knows the freeholder knows if the problems and would be sharing the costs, that the repairs are essential and would happen if she sold or not, might change her tune.

I'd walk away. It's a lot of disruption at a time when you're going to want to be focused on your baby. I'd also be concerned that she's done other bodge jobs and you'll end up revealing more and more things to fix (even if they're not urgent)

What is the freeholder says NO? You have the dodgy roof over your heads. This needs to be sorted out before it went on the market. It is simply impossible to say what’s going to happen. In your circumstances it should be easy to walk away.

I hope your baby is ok. Don’t put yourself through this too. She has covered up the problems and she is not trustworthy.

(I was going to say £20,000 re cost. So I now see I wasn’t wrong and they always find more problems!

To be honest I would walk away. It’s just too much hassle and not a quick low cost job. There will be another property without this amount of work. You’ve also got the downstairs freeholder to deal with and it’s just too complicated with your current situation.
What if the downstairs freeholder won’t agree to it all? If it was a freehold house you could get the property price reduced and sort it out yourselves but it’s not.

Sometimes things happen for a reason and this is your reason to not proceed. Another flat will come along that will be better without all of this problem. It might seem terrible at the moment but you will look back and sigh with relief.

We are just walking away from a house with roof issues, and ours sounds not as bad as this. I just couldn’t face a huge bill and all the disruption a new roof would mean in the next few years, whilst also juggling small children.

I don't think a new roof is necessarily much disruption. We had one on a house recently £10k (not London). Scaffold up front. Roofers didn't enter the house. Very little disruption for those living there.

With a difficult vendor & it being a flat which will no doubt need agreement from others to fix the roof, I think I'd just drop out of this one TBH unless the vendor sorts it out before sale.

With a new baby I’d consider something else

I actually don't think you walk away yet but immediately alert the freeholder downstairs that it needs replacing (and you can gauge by their reaction what kind of neighbour they will be which can help you make your decision) and the possible costs. I would approach them directly so you can make your own judgement about this.

You tell your seller that you are doing this. Then you drop your offer by the worse case scenario (which isn't a share of the cost it is the whole cost in case the other freeholder can't/refuses to contribute or some other issue). Then you will get a new roof and the costs covered.

It doesn't sound like it has to be done next week in any case so perhaps you could wait 6 months until your baby is older and hopefully better which also gives you time to take stock and get more quotes, agreement from the other freeholder etc. Re-roofing is noisy but can often be relatively quick and hopefully could all be done externally.

However if the other freeholder isn't helpful right now then I would pull out. If the seller refuses to accept the lowered offer then I would be doing my sums and working out whether you could pull out and find somewhere new for completion around 6 months after the baby is born. How are prices where you live? Do you think they will go up or down?

I am so sorry you are experiencing this, what a stressful experience all around. I hope you can reduce the stress somehow and concentrate on your lovely baby.

@1starwars2

I don't think a new roof is necessarily much disruption. We had one on a house recently £10k (not London). Scaffold up front. Roofers didn't enter the house. Very little disruption for those living there.

We had a new roof on a big 4-bed house for £7k last year, but that was just re-tiling. If major timbers need to be replaced then the cost may well be much higher - especially if the roof will be off for long enough that it needs to be fully enclosed by sheeted scaffolding to make it weatherproof.

Poor you OP. I would 100 percent insist on a conversation with the downstairs freeholder before proceeding and drop your offer by 15k.

Walk away. She may be hiding more.
Covid fears my arse.

Thank you to everyone for all your advice - and the commiserations! Honestly, mad vendors...

The survey was otherwise good, with mostly 1s and only few 2s (the attic being one of those), and this seems to be the only area she has ‘repaired’ herself, but we have thought about if anything else is lurking.

Our solicitor has said the seller would be responsible for speaking to the downstairs neighbours - she suggested that she ask the solicitors to do that if the vendor is difficult - so I am not sure if we are allowed to contact them ourselves directly? I completely agree their response will be crucial. The communal areas/shared front garden are beautifully maintained so my secret hope is that this means they are reasonable/invested in the building! But an extra £9k they weren’t budgeting on is obviously a different issue from a nice front garden.

The roofer said it didn’t have to be done immediately - he said we could carry on just patching it every year and we’d be fine for a while but strongly recommended against that as it would end up costing more - we would go back and ask for £9-10k off and suggest a £9k retention of the sale price, which would go back to the vendor providing the downstairs neighbours pay, but means we were covered if not? And if it’s not immediately accepted we run for the hills, carry on with our sale, and move into rented accommodation with the baby. And please let London house prices come down once the stamp duty charge is back!

@PigletJohn

find another home.

This. Don’t throw any more good money at something bad.