Grade II listed - revised offer after survey

[badgerread]

I had an offer accepted on a property on the 1st December. It is a Grade II listed semi detached cottage, been on the market 15 months with no offers therefore hasn't gone to survey before. It was on at OIEO £400k and I got it for £410k.

Full building survey done (which I KNOW brings up everything). Significant issues raised are the roof which needs repointing at a cost of between £10 and £12k, 7 windows need restoring/repairing at (worse case) £800 each, front and back door needs repairing, shiplapping at front needs replacing, potential drainage problem at rear (need to have CCTV survey done to find out what is blocking the rear gulley) and plastic rainwater fittings need replacing at rear with metal ones.

I'm looking for a reduction of £25k. Vendor admitted to my surveyor 'the property was in really good condition when we moved in 16 years ago, we haven't done a thing to it)'

I appreciate it's an old building and needs maintenance but I offered before knowing what needed doing. What do you think my chances are?

It isn’t fair to expect buyers to see defects in a roof and find out that won’t open when they view. That’s what surveyors are for.

You nearly always have to replace like with like. Or repair what’s there. So most houses wouldn’t have had oak windows. The replacement of plastic guttering with metal is a small fortune too.

that windows won’t open.....

To be fair though, that roof looks like it needs some work even on the photo................................ As a buyer I think thats pretty obvious so they may assume that you bid with that in mind. Start at 25k and work your way to the middle?

Gorgeous house OP. I'm now massively invested in what happens, do update when you can!

😀 will do!

I don’t think the photo looks that bad regarding the roof and it’s identical to next door. To the standard house buyer - it looks like a cottage roof. A bit wavy but cottages look like that. The greenery isn’t a big deal. Numerous people will say it’s been there for x number of years and it’s not fallen down yet! Of course that doesn’t mean it doesn’t need repair along the way. Op - you should rely on your surveyor and not entertain any notion that the photograph indicated £12,000 worth of work.

Hey,

I was on searching for something else but saw the title to this query and it reminded me of our own situation a year and a half ago. We offered knowing that there would be an issue coming up on the survey but the estimate the estate agent told us, and the surveyor was much less than the price quoted from many different companies.

As they knew it was an issue they’d prepared to go under but they hadn’t prepared for the quotes returned (one they had themselves)

The thing with a listed building is the time it takes to get approval for works and the detail you need for it, not to mention it just costs more. I knew all this and yet until living with it hadn’t really appreciated it.

Saying this - I clicked the link, funnily enough I grew up round the corner and know the area well. Lovely houses and hope it goes well for you, stick to your guns. If the window frames and roof need repairing they’ll only get worse with water ingress so if they refuse your offer it’ll just crop up again in another survey. Unfortunately the longer they leave it the more damage it risks doing.

Thanks stay. I've decided I'm sticking to my reduced offer and it's either yes or no. The work needs doing, I can't afford it with my original offer and why should I pay for 16 years of them not maintaining it.

I really like it and it could be lovely but am quite happy to walk away if they don't accept my revised offer.

As you say, the issues are only going to come up in future surveys. I have revised my offer based on quotes from specialists who have experience in dealing with listed properties plus information from two surveyors. It's not as if I've just plucked an amount from thin air.

Fingers crossed 😊

That's a Horsham Slab roof isn't it? Not a standard tiled job. It will be expensive and require a specialist. Listed Buildings always involve expensive repairs because you can't use off-the-shelf materials. Bespoke repairs/replacements cost.

That’s beautiful & I would love a garden like that

Good luck with it :) Miss being able to go down there right now.

Its a hard decision when you love somewhere but it’s got to work. I moved in and both love it and hate the complications, but slow moving and doing my best to do right by the place. We did find that things kept coming up that we liked so if it doesn’t work out then there’ll be something else.

I thought it was a stone roof. They are often split stone found locally and made into tiles. Common in the Cotswolds where limestone is used like this and gives the cottages wonderful character. Expensive to replace.

Have you looked up why the cottage is listed and what special features it has? These details are publicly available. Sometimes cottages are mentioned in historic records of an area. Might help with any subsequent negotiations.

I assume you have spoken to the local planning department?
And Historic England?
Some listing buildings need a planning application to do any work on them, so I would ask first before you take it any further.
You may also need to submit quite an extensive document detailing what you will be doing, why and how you will be doing it, often they want to know a lot of detail about the materials now its all do able but it just takes more planning, dont let it put you off you just need to pan work well in and vance and view the planners as a help not a hinderance
historicengland.org.uk/advice/hpg/assistanceforowners/maintenance/

Sorry to be all doom and gloom but old houses are often bottomless money pits. Are you sure you can afford the ongoing maintenance even if you do get a reduction?

Gorgeous house OP!
As someone who lives in a grade 2 house, I know how expensive they are. You’ve definitely done the right thing in asking for a reduction after the survey. When we bought ours, we ended up paying about £100k less than the eventual asking price (and that had already been reduced by about £150k from the seller’s expectations!). We have ended up spending more than we thought on the renovations. Thank goodness we got a huge reduction. If we had paid asking price we would have really struggled. Please bare this in mind. You will almost certainly end up finding more and more things to fix!
Fingers crossed nobody else is interested in the house and you manage to secure it for the lower price.

The roof is Horsham Stone at the front and clay tiles at the back. Yes I have spoken to all the relevant authorities and understand the implications, present and future 🙂

Thanks for all the positive comments, will update you soon I hope!

This house looks like ours! We've just sold it too and we accepted a bit less than what you've agreed but we have done the roof, new boiler and updated generally. I would definitely ask

Gorgeous house!

Personally I think the windows could probably wait if necessary, but roof is a big deal and v expensive project.

Vendors are being totally ridiculous already by pushing you to offer over when it’s been 15 months of no offers?!? What on earth is going on there? Sounds like they have a vastly inflated idea of the property’s condition, when anyone can see it needs work. Honestly I think they should have accepted under asking anyway, regardless of survey.

From Home.co.uk it looks like it was reduced from £435k to OIEO £400k a few days before you offered. It doesn't have a 15 month history on there (Only since Oct 20 so are you sure it wasn't off the market for a while (maybe offer that fell through) - there's a Rightmove listing from June 2020) but presumably not on at same price all 15 months.

I own a Grade II listed building and I would have expected that level of cost/work especially the roof. As its been on so long I would have reduced offer but expect to do a deal at around £400k. Grade II listed houses do need a lot of work and there's a lot of regulations, its time consuming and isn't something I would advise taking on unless you really love the house. Generally not the best houses for easy to sell or a profit or low maintenance. I love that house and would buy it but depends what its worth to you and how keen vendor is to sell.

There should be compromise on price but vendors who don’t maintain grade 2 properties cannot expect top $ when they sell. Had it been perfect, then a top of the market price would reflect that. It’s still worth going for but the vendor should be reasonable.

silk if you have a look on Zoopla it's been on with two agents previously and on the market for 15 months.

Yes it has - started at £475k and seem to be going through the agents. Have you asked the surveyor how much they think its worth in current condition - that's what I did when we had similar. They told me to ask for £20k off and agree £10k then go ahead. The semi attached to it seems to have sold for £520k in 2017 but its bigger with garage. It's quite hard with grade II to price as they tend to be all different and the sales prices often seem erratic, sometimes seems to be how much someone loves it as much as anything.

UPDATE!

Just spoke the agent, vendors are refusing to take anything off as they don't agree with what's in the survey, and apparently the roof was 'all done 5 years before they moved in'

So I've withdrawn my offer.

Sorry it wasn't happier news for some of you and thank you for all your hints and tips! I'm actually feeling ok about it so maybe it just wasn't meant to be 😊

With grade 2 it is how much spare money someone has! Over paying for it! 21 years ago for a stone roof is quite a while ago. They should have checked the roof was ok. Some things are not meant to be.

@badgerread

UPDATE!

Just spoke the agent, vendors are refusing to take anything off as they don't agree with what's in the survey, and apparently the roof was 'all done 5 years before they moved in'

So I've withdrawn my offer.

Sorry it wasn't happier news for some of you and thank you for all your hints and tips! I'm actually feeling ok about it so maybe it just wasn't meant to be 😊

That's a shame, but I think you've done the right thing! There's better waiting for you 😊