Agent has said i need to exchange by Friday, before the damp proof survey and other assessments

[Tomoveorno]

Ok ive posted under a previous user name about my quite pushy vendors, conference calls with them and the agents, Ive felt quite berated at times.

A couple of proirity 3 issues have been identified by the structural survey - one relating to damp, and a potentially structural issue relating to the lack of support for a chimney (its a garden flat)

I instructed a damp proof survey today to be carried out next tuesday and arranged for my builder to come and view the chimney issue with me this Thurday.
The Agent has told me that the vendors have only found out today that they need to exchange by this Friday or their onward purchase is going on the market as their sellers are greedy and tired of waiting (my offer was accepted early in october)

Honestly Im feeling quite exhausted with the back and forward and what feels like a lack of patience, and wonder if Im being put under pressure to exchange or whether this is a guenuine request.

The agent tells me he has a dampproof surveyor who may be available and they may be able to ‘call in a favour’ for me but cannot be certain. Feels a bit odd however im not sure if im being suspicious for nothing.

Im loathe to lose the 3k ive already spent so please help!!

@VimFuego101

It sounds very much like they're trying to hurry this along before you discover the full extent of the damp issues.

Yes quite. Just put your assertive pants on, send a very simple clear email saying 'I am not in a position to exchange yet although I remain very keen to progress to that point' and stop letting them bully you.

Ok team - Ive put my big girl pants on and have sent @KihoBebiluPute ‘s excellent message to the agent, copying in my lawyer. Feel weird relief having got this off my chest.

Im totally braced for this not going through but thats ok. I received an email from the agent at 5am this morning asking why I didnt think the 500 discount was sufficient. I mean, come on!

I love that so many of you have come together to help me with this - its the most popular post ive ever created on Mumsnet

I will wait for the agent to confirm that the sale has fallen through and start looking at rentals for February.

Well done, OP!!

It's good that you're mentally prepared for it to fall through, but it might not - the vendors are still better off sticking with you than starting from scratch with someone else. You've not acted at all unreasonably here, nor any different than a future buyer would.

Also brace yourself for frenzied pressure the vendors / agents are likely to put on you as vendor won't want their chain to fall though and agent wants the commission.

Yes don't back down
Don't let them know they've rattled you or show any disappointment
Stand your ground
I had a developer string us around for months . They kept threatening to pull out and I just said yeah well just let me know when you do so I can look elsewhere

I suspect one of the reasons for the extremely high pressure sales technique is that they actually know that the chimney breast is unsafe, and are desperate to sell to some mug who doesn't know what they're getting themselves into.

Well done for sending the email, OP.

Worst case scenario of 50 grand sounds about right, specially when you take into account the fact that it's leasehold, you'll be doing repairs which affect neighbouring properties so will need consent/party wall act/etc. etc. etc...

Personally (as someone who's been burned in the past) I'd write off the 3 grand.

From a leasehold management perspective, if there isn't a licence to alter for the removal of the chimney breast, it's a breach of the lease. Breaches travel with the lease and not the owner, so you could be pursued to make good by a competent man co, which is not what it sounds like here whether or not you did the initial work. The LPE1 form for leasehold sales should have included this information on it; either it was included and your solicitor is negligent in not pointing it out, or someone is lying about carrying out unauthorised work.

The chimney issue is going to be a lot of hassle to resolve as you're going to need access to the properties above, at a time when we're in lockdown.

@NotDavidTennant

The chimney issue is going to be a lot of hassle to resolve as you're going to need access to the properties above, at a time when we're in lockdown.

Perhaps time for OP to apply some pressure herself? Her vendors had better facilitate her builder's access to those flats by , because if OP isn't satisfied of the property's condition by she'll need to sign a new tenancy agreement and will be pulling out...

The point about building control and landlord consent is a good one. Leasehold properties are a nightmare for this. OP you should definitely be bouncing this back onto the vendor and estate agent. When the vendors bought the flat - what documentation did they see about the chimney breast? Do they have stuff from the landlord or managing agents? It's in their interests to give you the peace of mind you are seeking so that the chain does not break. Why aren't they mobilising at their end to find the reassuring evidence instead of dumping all the pressure on you in exchange for £500?? Stinks to high heaven.

And going back to my post of last night I am so glad you feel a sense of weird relief. It's because you have taken back control. You know where you stand. Not going to march to their drumbeat. (if you'd exchanged I can guarantee you would be feeling very sick right now).

And you have time to find somewhere else for you and DD too. A PP was right: you may have said you would move out in Feb but there may be many ways to prolong that. Depending on your contract with landlord etc.

As for this line about sellers not being able to arrange a Time with upstairs flats for the builder to go round. In a lockdown when there is no where else to go? Crap. I can see people might be v reluctant to have trades people in and that is reasonable. But was there any effort on their part to show willing with other suggestions? Eg asking neighbours to do a one minute video of their flat to show the absence of a chimney breast and email them to your builder? Anything like that would have shown good faith on their part. They're shysters.

So glad you have stood firm!

Well done Op.
Their behaviour definitely seems fishy.

Well well well - who would have thought. Following my email this morning the agent has reverted to say the vendors are happy for me to arrange for the damp survey and for my builder to visit next week . They are also putting the flat back on the market in case they get a buyer sooner.

Ive got the damp proof surveyor comiing in on Wednesday and am organising with the builder.

Ive also dropped Building Control an email to ask about how does one actaully support the chimney and can it be done through a steel on my bathroom or do i need to do it through the ceiling. Ive also asked about building control permission and the extent to which party wall approval would be needed. Please let me know if there is anything else that I have missed.

@friskybivalves thats a good question as there was nothing in the documentation from the vendor about fireplace removal approval so I will ask again.

Glad they're finally co-operating a bit! However, this...

They are also putting the flat back on the market in case they get a buyer sooner.

...I would unfortunately take as a sign that you're about to discover something bad enough to make you pull out. Because getting a fresh buyer to the point of exchange is going to take months - no way would it be longer than the few days it'll take for you to do your checks. Hope I'm wrong though - keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Great news! Even if another buyer comes along you are clearly further ahead in the process. I can see that putting it back on the market is their way of spurring you on. The irony is that they have been so nonchalant themselves (being generous) about getting you the information you need re the chimney breast.

Is the flat in a big block or is it more like a converted house? Is it a share of freehold? If there is a freeholder and or managing company, they should have details of the consents that have been given to individual leaseholders for internal structural alterations - indeed any significant changes - whether that is the current owner or a previous one. I have had to get permission to move non
-load bearing walls in the past. I have also - when buying - been in touch with a prospective freeholder to check whether I'm being told the truth about being able to extend into the roof of a top floor flat (reader: I was not being told the truth). Again - if this vendor has nothing to hide there should be no obstacle to putting you in contact if this info is not already available. It is part and parcel of selling a leasehold property.

How on earth do they think they will get another buyer sooner? Seems crazy to me!

They should be doing everything possible to facilitate this sale with you. You are doing everything right. Even their final ridiculous statement about putting the property back on the market suggests to me that they and the EA know that your builder and own investigations are going to reveal this hasn’t been done properly.
Well done. Continue with your plans to investigate and then you will be in possession of the actual facts to make an informed decision as to whether this is safe to proceed or not. You are doing everything right that any other purchaser would also do.

For what it’s worth I pulled out of a previous house sale where the vendor was a builder! He hadn’t got planning permission for an extension and he had removed a chimney breast. I spoke with the planning department as well about it all and all along I had the builder and EA telling me everything was fine. It wasn’t. The property sold 9 months later for 40k less.

After I discovered from talking to the freeholder and planning dept that it would not - contrary to what both vendor and EA particulars were saying - be possible to extend into the loft space of a flat I wanted to buy (conservation area and restricted covenant thingies), they could no longer market it as having potential for three beds (it was a two bedder). They had to drop the price from £725k to £630k overnight. Ouch.

They are also putting the flat back on the market in case they get a buyer sooner.

Translation: they are fully expecting you to pull out of the sale once you have the full picture and are hoping to snare someone else more gullible. Be very cautious about spending anything more on fees for assessing this property, it will probably all end up being for nothing in the end.

It is normal practice for properties to be removed from the market while investigations and surveys take place as a mark of good faith from the vendor as the buyer is risking substantial fees. Putting the property back on the market is a shoddy thing to do.

Thats a good shout everyone - I definitely feel wary dealing with these vendors and Im erring on the side of caution.

I had an interesting call with the council building control today though.
They could see from their portal that the loft was converted in 2009 (it is a large house, converted into 3 flats) and that building control (an external company, not the council itself) signed off the loft work. The planning inspector said that assessing the chimney support would have formed part of this assessment and that the fact that this work was signed off gave him comfort that the chimenynwas adequately supported and there were no concerns. He asked me to make sure that the first floor
chimney had been removed though

I will check the removal of the first floor chimney with my builder next week however would you know how i access the neighbours building control documents? These were not provided to us by the vendor and they advise that they do not have any documents of this nature. I guess i could ask them to do the work to find them? I can see planning documents and appovals on the portal but not building control

Just keep checking what's available for rental and for sale, and think about asking your current landlord about extensions... Even if you think there's no chance the landlord can or will help, it's worth checking. Also think about whether you really still want to go ahead with this flat, and keep up the assertiveness!

I don't think you should be chasing up these documents yourself for various reasons. You need more comeback than "I telephoned the department on ddmmyyyy and X said to check for..." It's great that the person was helpful but surely your solicitor should be on this?
Also maybe since nothing can happen over the weekend it'll be a good chance for you to really think about whether this is the right flat for you.

Just say...no. He may be trying to hide something, either way it’s not advisable.