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Original poster

Feeling bullied, should we pull out?

300 replies

DobbieFreeElf · 29/12/2020 14:52

I’ve come here to get some opinions from people removed from the situation.

We had an offer accepted on a house in September, the house fits our, very specific, needs and although we would like to improve it over the years (new kitchen, bathrooms, maybe extension) we would be planning this to be a home for 20 years.

The house is an adjoining paddock, a couple of acres, which is ideal as I have always had horses (prior to kids) and when the little people are bigger I would like to get another.

We were all set to exchange on the Monday before Xmas when our solicitor calls to say that the sellers want to impose an Overage clause (also called uplift/ clawback) on the land. In essence this means that if planning permission is granted on the land we must pay a percentage of the increase in value to the sellers. We felt completely blindsided as we had never even heard of this before that date.

Aside from potentially building a couple of stables in the future we have absolutely no plans to develop the land. (Why would we, we love the house because it is rural).

I can’t decide if we should cut our losses and walk away now.

Now the seller is threatening to put the house back on the market next Monday. We feel backed into a corner and bullied.

Initially we were dead set against the overage (especially as it was dropped on us at the 11th hour) but having had time to look around at what else is on the market (nothing that meets our needs), thinking about the 15k extra we will have to pay on another property (as it’s doubtful there would be a house we would complete on before the SD holiday ends), the £2k+ we’ve already spent on conveyancing, searches, surveys, inspections etc. and many other factors we had decided that we would be open to the overage (as long as we negotiate terms that we are ok with)

Are we stupid, should we walk away, is this fate giving a massive warning sign...

OP posts:
OxfordwillsaveusbyFebruary · 29/12/2020 16:51

@krustykittens

Oxfordwillsaveusbyfebruary I don't have as much experience as you, having only bought the four in places such as Somerset, Shropshire, Cheshire and now the Scottish Borders, but none of them had an overage clause. So while an overage clause might be common, it's not the standard when buying a rural property or paddock/field and if the OP is really uncomfortable with this, she doesn't have to accept it. It might be very common in an area with lots of development going on and planned for the future but again, not the standard.
Did you buy the land separately as the OP is being asked to do? Or all on 1 deed?

It is absolutely routine on small land sales close to any residential dwellings here.

Grobagsforever · 29/12/2020 16:56

@Topseyt

No, I didn't say I was.

Both my suggestions are perfectly legal however.

SeaToSki · 29/12/2020 16:56

Can you agree to it as long as it is limited to just your current ownership of the paddock? So if you sell, the new owners arent liable?

Then buy the paddock in one of your names and a month later sell it to your spouse.

Make sure your solicitor writes the overage clause so that you are properly protected and its crystal clear.

Original poster
DobbieFreeElf · 29/12/2020 16:57

Thank you everyone, I’m slightly relieved to hear that the opinion is that we haven’t overreacted.

The property is in midlands (relocating from the southeast)

I had already worried about any change in circumstances that could lead to us wanting to sell, in which case we would likely keep the land and sell the house (house is still on a very sizeable garden plot)

A week ago I couldn’t imagine living anywhere but there. Now we are fully prepared to walk away.

We have gone back with a counter offer of 10 years and limited to residential planning permission. We would probably be ok with 15 years but not much more.

OP posts:
CheeseCakeSunflowers · 29/12/2020 16:59

In my experience this request has become quite usual now when buying agricultural land but it should have been mentioned when you first viewed the property as it makes the transaction significantly different to the one you were originally bidding on. The important thing to check is if you are liable to pay upon the grant of planning permission or upon development actually starting. Anyone can apply for building permission so a development company could apply without your permission as the owners. This could lead to you being liable to pay a huge sum to the sellors even though you don't want to develop the land if you become liable upon grant of planning. If you only become liable upon the development starting you remain in control.

Bleughbleughbleugh12 · 29/12/2020 17:02

Cheeky sods! Sellers shouldn’t be allowed to spring these things on you last minute! I’d walk personally mainly because of the implications if I wanted to sell but there must be a reason they want this... they must be expecting something

Weirdlynormal · 29/12/2020 17:03

I also thought it was ‘normal’. It wouldn’t put me off as I’d half expect it. What I wouldn’t accept is the term.

Start at 5 and go from there

Pearsapiece · 29/12/2020 17:03

Well done op. And if they refuse, walk away as It's not meant to be

ToastieSnowy · 29/12/2020 17:05

Cheeky fuckers, that should have been in the details not added at the 11th hour.

Ignore the estate agents, they look after their own interests, not yours and not the sellers. If they think they can persuade you to take that deal they’ll tell you all sorts of shit.

You’ve been very generous with 10 years & residential planning only. Stand firm. They can take it or leave it. Best of luck

Candleabra · 29/12/2020 17:05

We have gone back with a counter offer of 10 years and limited to residential planning permission. We would probably be ok with 15 years but not much more.

Just be careful. Have a think about whether you really want to do this. If they'd given you this option to start with presumably you'd have had the same initial reaction? It only seems reasonable because they've started with 40 years etc.
Give yourself a cooling off period to see whether you want to proceed on those terms (if they accept them).

DingDingRound2 · 29/12/2020 17:07

Good luck OP! Lots of great advice but I, too, would seriously be looking at pulling out.

Daisydoesnt · 29/12/2020 17:09

OP I think you’d be crazy to walk away. It’s bang out of order that they have come up with this so late in the day - that goes without saying - but you will only have to stump up IF the land is granted planning permission. If you do nothing, you won’t pay anything. You are no worse off than you would have been.

MintyMabel · 29/12/2020 17:17

Walk away.

BlueThistles · 29/12/2020 17:22

Compromising and agreeing to this Clause gives the impression that you intended to sell that land for profit... they will absolutely come back now with a counter offer because they will smell the money...

OP you should have walked away.

PatchworkElmer · 29/12/2020 17:25

If walk away if they counter offer I think.

krustykittens · 29/12/2020 17:34

Good luck to you, OP, and I hope your solicitor is helping you with this. It sounds like you really love the place, so I hope this works out for you.

Marshy86 · 29/12/2020 17:37

I'd be concerned about how this will affect the sale of the house if you ever need to, I know you plan on being there a while but you never know what's the corner. Personally I wouldn't go for this why should they make a profit off something they no longer own ? How long was the house on the market for ?

TommyShelby · 29/12/2020 17:40

God this feels so greedy of the sellers! Really feel for you OP

Dozer · 29/12/2020 17:42

I would say no, and that unless they exchange without this clause by X date, you will not be proceeding.

If you don’t buy the house, so be it.

ChickenyChick · 29/12/2020 17:47

I would leave the emotion out of it and look at it with a very cool head:

Does the property appeal to you at the price?

Would you be negatively impacted by the clause in terms of money? (if you do not plan to develop, ever , anyway, the clause does not impact you)

Have you seen anything better for a better price?

It's annoying when you feel bullied, but people get emotional about house buying and selling (as it's a home, not just a house) but trey to look at it just from a business point of view. That way you'll make the right decision

Dozer · 29/12/2020 17:49

From a ‘business’ perspective, the clause would likely make it much more difficult to sell the property.

Daisydoesnt · 29/12/2020 18:09

As someone commented up thread, overage is not at all uncommon when you’re buying land next to houses. Land itself is relatively cheap - land that can only be used for grazing/ agriculture. It’s land for development that’s valuable.

The only thing that is unusual is that they’ve brought this up so very late in the day.

It absolutely does not make the house more difficult to sell. The house and the land are separate and have separate deeds. The OP will be buying them in separate but parallel purchases. So when they come to sell, if they wanted they could keep the paddock and just sell the house, or sell the paddock (to a developer) and keep the house, or sell both as the current vendor is doing.

I’ll say it again OP, if you don’t seek/get PP you’ll not have to pay up a penny. If you sell the house and keep the field you won’t have to pay a penny. The only time you get a hit is if you decide to sell the paddock to a developer, or if you decide to sell the house, keep the paddock and build on it yourselves.

In both scenarios the paddock will have increased in value significantly and you’d pay the overage out of proceeds of the sale. Any subsequent buyers of your property would face the same scenario- they only have to pay out if the paddock increases in value significantly by being granted PP.

Oh and one more thing - the overage will be linked to the purchase price of the field and the value of the field in the future if it gets PP. the value of the house then or now is totally irrelevant and not part of that calculation. I don’t know what the OP is paying for the field but I’m guessing it’s in the low tens of thousands (maybe £15-20k?) With planning it could be worth more like £200k, but even then the overage would only be £45k, leaving the OP with a net profit of £135k

OxfordwillsaveusbyFebruary · 29/12/2020 18:31

@CheeseCakeSunflowers

In my experience this request has become quite usual now when buying agricultural land but it should have been mentioned when you first viewed the property as it makes the transaction significantly different to the one you were originally bidding on. The important thing to check is if you are liable to pay upon the grant of planning permission or upon development actually starting. Anyone can apply for building permission so a development company could apply without your permission as the owners. This could lead to you being liable to pay a huge sum to the sellors even though you don't want to develop the land if you become liable upon grant of planning. If you only become liable upon the development starting you remain in control.
Thats a good point Someone- not us- identified our garden as a potential building site when the council had to do a brown field plan a few years ago and then someone else wanted to get outline planning on it. It was all rather bizarre.
Weirdlynormal · 29/12/2020 19:12

From a ‘business’ perspective, the clause would likely make it much more difficult to sell the property

This just isn’t true! Have you purchased property of this type?

Fluffyslippers01 · 29/12/2020 19:16

Sorry that you have been out in this situation OP. We are in the process of buying and so close to exchange, we would be infuriated if our sellers pulled a stunt like this. My other half said he would pull out on principle but it’s so easy to say that when it’s not you buying the house.

My DF had an overage clause on his business property but was only for the length of 5 years. I was also surprised to read about your solicitors, I would totally expect them to leave you to argue out with the estate agent about furniture etc but something this complex is a bit cheeky of them. Don’t go ahead with anything you don’t feel comfortable with and ensure your take legal advice before moving forward. Good luck and please do keep us updated 💐