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Stamp duty holiday extension

64 replies

Randomtasks · 22/12/2020 13:48

Speculative ofc but does anyone think its likely?

Friend of mine has just started the moving process thinking she had plenty of time but everything seems to be taking longer than expected.

Seems so wrong to just cut it off like that!

OP posts:
IamthatIam · 22/12/2020 23:30

@inquietant one would think that generally but this Tory government is all about levelling up and retaining the support of previous Labour supporters. So far, this story government has not acted like typical Tory.

This Tory government will seek to please everyone but in the end will disappoint everyone. I may be wrong but they will not be seen to be propping up a South centric housing market whilst the north have bigger problems to grapple with.

The property frenzy is mainly fuelled by folks in the South.

inquietant · 22/12/2020 23:34

This government is about to level up Hmm whilst doing nothing in reality.

This government has been worse than typical so far, sadly.

IamthatIam · 22/12/2020 23:34

@RainingBatsAndFrogs, fair to whom and at the expense of who? Do you suppose there is an unending pot of money somewhere. For every freebie you get, someone else has to pay either through more taxes or through loss of support from the government.

By your logic the extended stamp duty relief will never end because whatever the deadline there will always be people who have exchanged by the deadline. So if that is the criterion how will it ever end if you extend?

donquixotedelamancha · 22/12/2020 23:36

Bizarre to think it just benefits the MC. Surely they can afford it anyway? We aren't wealthy and the SD holiday allowed us to buy a property that would have been out of our reach without it.

If the stamp duty holiday made such a difference that it allowed you to buy a house which would have been out of your reach then you are surely (perhaps excluding London) middle class?

Average UK housebuyers would only pay about £5k SD. The vast bulk of people profiting from this house price subsidy are relatively wealthy.

IamthatIam · 22/12/2020 23:38

@inquietant I think they are very serious about levelling up. Have you seen the white paper and the 10 point plan. Whether they achieve what they set out to achieve is another story.

Look so far they’ve made their intention on the current stamp duty relief extension clear. They may make a U turn but I would bank on that.

vickyp0llard · 22/12/2020 23:38

The chancellor was clear in response that it won’t be extended.

Just like furlough, lol.

I'm hoping it will be, we've just started the buying process but I can see how it will take forever - after filling in the initial mortgage/solicitor forms, we're getting radio silence back from everyone. Are the sellers in a chain? Have the searches been sent off? Who knows because no-one is responding and now they're all off for christmas.

ethelredonagoodday · 22/12/2020 23:42

If you look on some of the other threads on here, there are many, many people who've been in the process of buying/selling for several months now, still with no end in sight. I do not doubt that by the time we complete we may well have taken 6 months from start to finish. I'd welcome some flexibility on the SD holiday, it will make a big difference to us if we exceed the end date...

IamthatIam · 22/12/2020 23:47

Furlough is aimed at those who are in financial trouble. Stamp duty relief benefits the wealthy who are in secure enough positions to be able to secure a mortgage. Extending furlough is a no brainer. Extending stamp duty relief? They need the stamp duty tax from the wealthy to pay for the more needy in furlough.

I would love for the relief to be extended. I can’t see it happening and the government cannot I turn on everything. Whatever it u turns on must have a credible story that sits well with the public. I can’t see the public thinking it is okay to continue to subsidise wealthier southerners and their house buying and selling frenzy.

inquietant · 22/12/2020 23:57

@IamthatIam

I have seen it, yes.

They are not serious about levelling up, they are serious about appearing to level up.

Starseeking · 22/12/2020 23:59

Ooh I hope they do. We're planning on putting our house on the market in January, so it would make our house more likely to sell if the buyer could save a few thousand pounds in the process.

IamthatIam · 23/12/2020 00:32

@inquietant, cool. If you say so.

Fifiox · 23/12/2020 00:49

I really hope they don't sellers are just chucking on 20-25k on asking more than the stamp duty saving.
It's done nothing to help buyers in the long term rates are more expensive.

inquietant · 23/12/2020 06:03

[quote IamthatIam]@inquietant, cool. If you say so.[/quote]
If there was any interest at all in tackling inequality, that White Paper list would be very very different.

  • social housing
  • investment in buses
  • reversing their own education cuts especially in deprived areas
  • increased funding via benefits

Etc.

The conversion of more city centre buildings to flats without planning permission is even criticised by fellow Conservatives as building future slums.

Don't fall for a slogan. That slogan is about justifying Brexit, to try to distract from the economic harm that will be done in poorer areas. It's just a smokescreen.

I didn't want to derail the thread so this is a tiny fraction of what I could say!

Ultimately they haven't fundamentally changed their economic outlook, which is responsible for much of the existing inequality.

IamthatIam · 23/12/2020 08:40

One of the biggest drivers of inequality in the future will be access to and cost of energy. Levelling up on this is important. The priority is not about stamp duty and relief for middle class people to buy houses.

Blibbyblobby · 23/12/2020 12:30

@inquietant

Why would the government continue to subsidise the wealthier members of society by extending the stamp duty?

Because they are a Tory government. That is their raison d'etre.

Not just Tories, last Labour government did the same.

20 years ago I was sure we were due a house price correction. Too disconnected from fundamentals, ordinary people can't afford to live, etc etc.

Since then I've seen just how far successive governments will go to keep nominal house prices high. They have to, because people are so in debt that any fall in house prices hits confidence and triggers a slowdown or recession. It's not at all fair and it's swapping a nasty recession for ongoing stagnation but there you are. They will use any and every trigger they can to keep nominal values high.

IamthatIam · 23/12/2020 13:14

House prices are crazy in the South.

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 23/12/2020 20:05

[quote IamthatIam]@RainingBatsAndFrogs, fair to whom and at the expense of who? Do you suppose there is an unending pot of money somewhere. For every freebie you get, someone else has to pay either through more taxes or through loss of support from the government.

By your logic the extended stamp duty relief will never end because whatever the deadline there will always be people who have exchanged by the deadline. So if that is the criterion how will it ever end if you extend?[/quote]
Well firstly the housing market is very valuable to the Gvt even without SDLT. It fuels solicitors, surveyors and EAs, all of whom have VAT on their fees. The SDLT holiday only covers the first £500k so is an incentive, in a time when otherwise the market could be dead and generating no taxes whatsoever, to those buying more expensive houses to be paying SDLT on another £500k worth of property.

And fair to the people who are in the process of buying but it is delayed firstly by the November lockdown and now, in London at least, by Tier 4. Jobs taking longer, surveyors working under COVID-safe conditions having longer waiting lists etc etc. There will be many chains collapsing because of these delays if the buyers cannot afford to buy with the full SDLT. And they will have already paid for a survey / searches / incurred solicitor fees.

It doesn’t need to go on for ever. If you have exchanged, you are under contract. They could say everyone who exchanges by a certain date, or anyone who has mortgage agreed survey booked / searches paid for. Or some other appropriate and verifiable part of the process.

They instigated the holiday because it is good for the Gvt for the property market to be moving. Not because they wanted to be nice to people! So, in the end it is presumably of net benefit. If they don’t extend they will introduce some new wheeze to get people to buy housing.

IamthatIam · 23/12/2020 20:30

@RainingBatsAndFrogs, you said “Well firstly the housing market is very valuable to the Gvt even without SDLT”.

Exactly! So why would they extend it?

Didyousaysomethingdarling · 23/12/2020 20:49

Exactly! So why would they extend it?

To keep the chains intact where the houses at the top of the chain ARE paying huge amounts of stamp duty. Think 2nd home buyers spending over £1.5m ie stamp duty of £123,750.00

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 23/12/2020 22:15

@Didyousaysomethingdarling

Exactly! So why would they extend it?

To keep the chains intact where the houses at the top of the chain ARE paying huge amounts of stamp duty. Think 2nd home buyers spending over £1.5m ie stamp duty of £123,750.00

Exactly.

In London it will only be the buyers at the bottom who will be avoiding stamp duty. And they are the ones that enable everyone to move up.

plannit · 23/12/2020 22:22

I'd like to see it extended for those who have already started the process at a certain cut off,

We have just moved and it took so much longer than I'd expected. If it had gone past a point where stamp duty had to be factored in again we'd have had to pull out.

IamthatIam · 23/12/2020 22:33

But they would pay even more if it was not extended. Those buying million pound houses are the last sort that should be given the relief.

Sorry @RainingBatsAndFrogs. If the reason for extending is to give freebies to those buying million pound properties then this just reinforces why this will not happen.

In any case, those with all that money to spend on a 2nd home will hardly be discouraged from buying if the relief is not extended. They will continue to invest in 2nd homes regardless.

Extending stamp duty relief to benefit millionaires is just nuts.

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 23/12/2020 23:04

I think the PP meant the next home after being a first time buyer. Rather than a holiday home. But I may be wrong.

The chain I am in will collapse if we don’t complete by the end of March. I can’t afford the house plus stamp duty, neither can the people buying mine. The buyers further up will just stay put. So the Gvt, and therefore other citizens will lose out.

The ‘freebie’ is a small proportion of what they will pay anyway to anyone genuinely wealthy. They will still be paying a big whack of stamp duty.

But the chain relies on the struggling first time buyer or downsizing divorcee at the bottom of the chain. Who may not be able to afford an extra £10k so will pull out.

Stagnation means no one pays any stamp duty. Or associated costs and taxes, or employs solicitors, surveyors, Estate Agents, Removal companies. No one does the inevitable buying new furniture bits, carpet, decorating materials etc.

Didyousaysomethingdarling · 23/12/2020 23:17

@RainingBatsAndFrogs
Stagnation means no one pays any stamp duty. Or associated costs and taxes, or employs solicitors, surveyors, Estate Agents, Removal companies. No one does the inevitable buying new furniture bits, carpet, decorating materials etc.

Exactly!

Didyousaysomethingdarling · 23/12/2020 23:22

@IamthatIam
I'm guessing you're not from the South East. Where I live, a modest 3 bed mid terraced house with no utility, or downstairs loo costs £535k. The stamp duty holiday helps people in the South East with ordinary jobs make the move from a flat to a family home, not just the rich!