Can anyone here advise on RSJ's?

[Lovetodaydream]

We have recently moved into a property that had an extension across the back around 15 years ago. I have seen the plans and the sign off by our local authority planning. All good, solicitor was happy with this.
BUT...I cant see any evidence of RSJ's across the back. Nothing boxed in of that makes sense. When we have extended in the past, we had a small return either side of the wall and then the a lower area of the ceiling where the beam was boxed in. I hope I make sense.
Can they be put in the ceiling? And short of ripping down the ceiling ( it's quite large and keen not to ). Maybe pull up the floorboard upstairs? We can do that when we put new floor down.
To be clear, the plans showed a very small return on the plans but I know from previous extension, these can change along the way and still be signed off.
I'm feeling quite down about it now.

Yes, you can put steels so they are not visible from below

Thank you. Would they show up in the room above then?
I'm assuming 15 years down the line, any issue would have shown up by now and I am being neurotic.

You say planning has signed it off, but did building control also approve the building work? If so then you don't need to worry as it is considered sound.

It has a completion certificate from our local authority planning. Is that what you mean?

Yes our steels were put in higher up. Most people don't do it as it not only creates mayhem downstairs, but upstairs as well.

I tend to think of it as a job really well done by someone really caring about the look and probably wanted to stay a while as it cost a lot more.

If building control signed it off, then it should be ok but you can probably see all the plans and building control plans on the local authority online portal

You can absolutely have a steel beam that isn't visible. We have one in our house - we discovered it when we took floorboards up to look at the joists. We discovered that we had a steel joist between the upstairs floor and downstairs ceiling.

My friend has just had an extension built where she has a new RSJ where the back of her house was. All built into the new ceiling, so now the plaster board is up, you'd never know there was an enormous steel beam there.

Hi OP

I completed a big renovation project recently. I've got three RSJ's; there is evidence of two of them if you know where to look, the third is completely invisible.

Does the local council planning portal allow you to see the plans online? As a PP said, if the plans state a specific number of RSJ's need to be installed, Building Control would not issue the completion certificate if they hadn't been used.

I hope that helps.

Do you mean a bulkhead? I think you can have them installed without a bulkhead - I personally like the shape the one we've got has created. I would say if building control have signed it off, you're probably all right

You can see my RSJ in the ceiling but I didn't want the brick pillar support in my wall so instead I have another RSJ, vertical and hidden inside the wall that the ceiling RSJ sits on.

My friend paid a lot more money and had her RSJ hidden in her ceiling so the extension looks like part of her house, it isn't obvious that it is indeed a rear extension.

If building regs have signed off then there will surely be an RSJ. You should be able to see the building regs documents held at the council, they are legal documents so if you want a photocopy be prepared to pay a hefty photocopying charge. I have my building regs drawing that detail my extension.

Yes, RSJ can be installed flush with the existing ceiling - but to do so requires supporting the outside wall from higher up, so would require brick removal/redecoration in the wall of the room above, & if the RSJ also supports perpendicular floor joists then there's a bit more work to do there.
If you're spending £thousands refurbishing the house anyway I'd say its the proper way to do it.

Thanks all. It doesn't look like the room above has been decorated. I am going to ask a builder in take up the floor boards and check if they can see one. If there isn't, how difficult ( and expensive!) Is it to install? The gap is around 2m. All of this makes me want to move again.

No need , if it’s got a completion certificate.

I really don't know why you are worried. If you have seen the plans it will show the steels and location.

If its an extension to an exterior wall, its dead easy to put one in at floor level so it cant be seen from inside (or outside once the extension is done)

If its to make an opening in a supporting interior wall, a bit more difficult like you say, to conceal it, but it can be done...

Thanks. It looks some work was completed more recently and I have no certificate for that. Going to contact my solicitor tomorrow and get advice. This is for another load bearing wall.

Don’t get Planning and Building Control mixed up. There are completely different things. Planning have no interest in any steel beams so would never issue a Completion Certificate. This is Building Control’s remit. If BC have issued a CC, then you have nothing to worry about.

In having a bulkhead vs flush ceiling is really down to a matter of costs. A bulkhead is easier and cheaper to provide, especially if a flush fitting beam requires existing floor joists to be propped, etc...

It doesn't have any building control paperwork. We have paperwork for the original extension. But they have left the quote and work details for the wall removal but no building regs certificate and it wasn't mentioned on the TA6 form.

You said the extension had been signed off. Any knock through’s or supporting beams to accommodate those works would have been covered by the extension paperwork. If the knock through had no load bearing requirement, then there would not be any beams. Also remember beams can be steel ‘or’ timber and is dependant on the particular circumstance.

Thank you all. I feel I have unintentionally drip fed.

So, the plans for the building work that had planning permission have been signed off by building control. However, upon moving in to the property, the vendors left some paperwork that shows another load bearing wall has been removed. I have no building regs for this at all and am at a loss over what to do. I want to ensure that the house we are living in is safe, I have no idea whether there is an rsj, or an adequate one. How easy is it to get retrospective approval?

Are you 100% confident the wall removal was not included on the previous application as BR’s would describe those works as internal alterations? If you’re not sure, you could check with Building Control. If they have no record of it being already included and/or signed off, then you do have the option of submitting a Regularisation Certificate application. This will require the supporting beam(s) and potentially their bearings exposed for BC to inspect and sign off. Your BC authority will advise you on the process.

Confident. The main works date back 15 years ( that have the BR certificate), but the newer works that I have quotes and drawings for ( but no BR) are very recent.

Not been here long and want to sell up already. Its making me ill!

Get in contact with Building Control. In 99% of situations, they are a lot more level headed and understanding than Planning and as mentioned, will advise and guide you through the Regularisation process.

How do you know the recent work was to a load bearing wall? Has it been surveyed or are you guessing? Just ask a structural engineer to come round and assess it. They might be able to look in the void via a scope.

Yes, often beams have supporting piers but not necessarily. As others have said. A 2m gap could be held up with a lintel. Like a window.

Yes. It’s not a planning issue. It’s Building Control. Check what they have. If nothing, get a survey done as I suggested. Then if there is no beam and one is required, the Structural Engineer can design one. It really isn’t a huge deal.