Buying a house with underpinning

Merrow · 2020-12-07T13:16:19+00:00

We've just offered on a house and the estate agent has informed us that it has been underpinned. I've never heard of this before and some frantic googling suggests that the common consensus is to walk away. I've asked for more details about why exactly the underpinning was required (I expect as a result of an extension rather than subsidence) but I'm not really sure what are sensible questions to ask and what I should be concerned about. Any advice for the utterly clueless?

Shadowboy · 07/12/2020 14:03

Do you know when? We were told if the survey has shown no movement in the past 20 years since it’s not a problem and is insurance and therefore mortgageable

nauticant · 07/12/2020 14:05

Ask yourself what it will be like when you come to sell the house with underpinning?

msgloria · 07/12/2020 14:09

It is really naughty that they are only telling you now. I viewed a house recently that had been underpinned, and the estate agents made that clear when we rang up to arrange a viewing.

I think the key questions to ask are why was it underpinned, had there been damage and how has that damage been fixed. Is it likely that any further work will be required in time. Another key question is how much is the buildings insurance as often there will be a limited pool of insurers and the price is higher.

The house we viewed wasn't right for us, but it was a gorgeous house and it did sell quickly. It was on for over £1 mil in a great Greater London location. There is an argument that a house is safer for having been underpinned, but there is risk from a resale perspective (as you're seeing) and it's really important to explore the insurance issue.

If you think you'll find another house or houses that you like as much, then I'd probably walk away. But if it's really special then I wouldn't discount it straight off.

TroublesomeTownHouse · 07/12/2020 14:09

We bought (and then sold) an underpinned house.

The work was done properly and fully guaranteed. The only downside was that you had to remain insured with the original insurer. This wasn't a problem for us or our buyers.

You do need a decent survey to check it was done properly and whatever caused the problem in the first place has been fully dealt with but otherwise it doesn't have to be a dealbreaker.

Original poster

Merrow · 07/12/2020 14:23

It was done five years ago, which is the extent of my current knowledge!

It's the resale issue that's really worrying me. It's the perfect house for now - in the right tiny catchment area but a 1970s build and so actually affordable as opposed to the bay-windowed Victorian houses. DP's income is really unstable as a result of COVID, and we'd actually be able to live comfortably off my salary in this house which would be a relief, rather than the stretching we'd need to do to get a different house in the catchment. Everything inside is finished to a really high standard, while everything else close to our budget is a wreck. Our expectation would be that we'd sell in 5ish years once (hopefully) we'd both be in secure jobs and could get a mortgage based on that, but 5 years doesn't really seem that long when thinking about the potential hassle of selling.

OP posts:

AN85 · 07/12/2020 14:57

We bought an underpinned house. We were told on our second viewing so before we made an offer. The underpinning was done about 25 years ok and had building control sign off plus our survey showed no recent signs of movement. Some insurers will ask how long ago the underpinning was I think once past 10 years you'd be ok.

FurierTransform · 07/12/2020 16:21

Lots of old houses are underpinned, or will need to be in the future - especially if the UK climate warms as much as is predicted over the next 20 years.
Provided the reasoning was sound, the paperwork stacks up, & there's been no movement since, I'd personally see it as positive.

IHeartNiles · 07/12/2020 17:08

The horrors you read about subsidence are normally about properties that need underpinning rather than those already fixed. Lots of houses round here are underpinned, a combination of Victorian shallow foundations and clay soil. It’s really common in London and surrounding areas. We’ve bought several over the years. I normally worry more about similar properties that haven’t been done. I view it as a problem that’s been remedied. The houses round here all sell quickly. If you ask the vendors should be able to show you the underpinning report and building reg certs. You can then pass them onto your surveyor.
Insurance is more expensive until the underpinning reaches a certain age. You can get normal quotes online once it’s 20 years old but until then there are companies that will search the best deal via specialist insurance. A lot of people take over the existing insurance from the vendor. But keep it under review as once the underpinning is old it’s much cheaper to get normal insurance. I really wouldn’t worry about it. Quite often the house is a bit cheaper as you’ve seen, so you get a bargain that’s now standing firm.

user1471528245 · 07/12/2020 17:21

Check with your or other insurers to see if this is a concern for them and make sure you get all the guarantee paperwork as this will have required sign off by the surveyor and they don’t put their name to anything unless it’s done properly because they have to guarantee it, generally it’s not an issue and in fact an underpinned house is preferable to one that’s not in areas that are susceptible, there are a considerable number of new houses built on old quarries and brick pits that are piled (another name for underpinning) when they are built, as someone as already said it’s becoming very common due to the change in weather so there are more houses like it than you think, as long as all the paperwork is in place and it was signed off you should have no issues with resale

PresentingPercy · 07/12/2020 17:49

DH is a structural engineer. A house that’s underpinned is a better bet than one that hasn’t in the same location. It’s been monitored. It’s been reviewed for cracks all over. It’s been dealt with - hopefully not just left to settle! It’s had it’s issue resolved. What’s wrong with that?

Look for evidence of any more movement. Look to see if trees have been cut down. Look for cracks. Get a survey done.

meduskuka · 07/12/2020 18:51

We bought an underpinned house 3 years ago. My husband, who is a builder, was completely shocked that underpinned houses are seen as somehow worse and unsafe. His company does a lot of building all over London, and it is absolute norm to underpin. We had a local surveyor familiar with local area, and when I spoke to someone from the council( building department?) the guy told me that our house was probably one of the most stable. Insurance was not a problem as underpinning has been done over 30 years ago. I know every situation is different, but I think that underpinned properties have bad reputation for no reason. Good luck with your purchase, OP.

IHeartNiles · 07/12/2020 20:38

@Shadowboy

Do you know when? We were told if the survey has shown no movement in the past 20 years since it’s not a problem and is insurance and therefore mortgageable

You can get a mortgage on an underpinned house without any structural survey. And at any time post the underpinning as it will have building regs. It’s only if it’s known to be subsiding and not been underpinned that there will be a problem. The banks valuation survey is unlikely to even detect that underpinning was done or needed. They’re mostly desktop surveys now.

IHeartNiles · 07/12/2020 20:42

@meduskuka

We bought an underpinned house 3 years ago. My husband, who is a builder, was completely shocked that underpinned houses are seen as somehow worse and unsafe. His company does a lot of building all over London, and it is absolute norm to underpin. We had a local surveyor familiar with local area, and when I spoke to someone from the council( building department?) the guy told me that our house was probably one of the most stable. Insurance was not a problem as underpinning has been done over 30 years ago. I know every situation is different, but I think that underpinned properties have bad reputation for no reason. Good luck with your purchase, OP.

I know, I think some people don’t understand what it means. Surprising in some areas when whole roads have been done. It doesn’t help that the insurance companies haven’t grasped that an underpinned house is less risk than a neighbouring one of similar construction that hasn’t yet needed underpinning.

Original poster

Merrow · 08/12/2020 20:43

Thank you everyone, a lot to consider!

OP posts:

Burnthurst187 · 08/12/2020 21:00

We saw a great house for sale earlier this year in a nice cul de sac location. I rang to arrange a viewing and the EA said at the end of the conversation I've got to tell you that it was underpinned in 1997.

The EA said they only knew because the house had just sold but then the buyer had pulled out when they found out via a survey. I decided not to view

I did ask around online and the general feeling was that underpinned houses are generally now safer than those not underpinned. I was told a mortgage and insurance could be a problem but the main thing for me was that it would be harder to sell than a normal house in the future

Five years is not very long. If you can buy it cheap enough then I guess it's less of an issue but be prepared for it to be harder to sell on. We also saw houses for sale which were 1. behind a petrol station 2. yards from a train station 3. near a train line and recycling plant. All hung around for a very, very long time and all we decided against. Actually only viewed one of them in the end, selling on would always concern me

PresentingPercy · 08/12/2020 23:02

It’s utterly irrational not to buy an underpinned house.

Recent underpinning is good. It’s been monitored recently. Years ago isn’t a problem either. I think both are better than not underpinned in a similar location. The only houses that should be turned down are ones where the damage hasn’t been repaired.

cabbageking · 08/12/2020 23:17

Lots of houses are underpinned.

Worry about those not underpinned.

IHeartNiles · 09/12/2020 05:54

@Burnthurst187

We saw a great house for sale earlier this year in a nice cul de sac location. I rang to arrange a viewing and the EA said at the end of the conversation I've got to tell you that it was underpinned in 1997.

The EA said they only knew because the house had just sold but then the buyer had pulled out when they found out via a survey. I decided not to view

I did ask around online and the general feeling was that underpinned houses are generally now safer than those not underpinned. I was told a mortgage and insurance could be a problem but the main thing for me was that it would be harder to sell than a normal house in the future

Five years is not very long. If you can buy it cheap enough then I guess it's less of an issue but be prepared for it to be harder to sell on. We also saw houses for sale which were 1. behind a petrol station 2. yards from a train station 3. near a train line and recycling plant. All hung around for a very, very long time and all we decided against. Actually only viewed one of them in the end, selling on would always concern me

1997!! I’d have been more than happy to have bought that. What more proof do you need that the problem had been remedied? If >20 years you don’t even have to pay an insurance premium.

garlictwist · 09/12/2020 06:05

Our house has been underpinned as a drain leak caused subsidence in the 80s.

It does concern me a bit and might put people off but it's a lovely house and a surveyor said that there was no more movement so we went for it.

Burnthurst187 · 09/12/2020 08:45

1997!! I’d have been more than happy to have bought that. What more proof do you need that the problem had been remedied? If >20 years you don’t even have to pay an insurance premium.

It only had a shower room upstairs, too small for a bath which was odd considering it was a three bed semi. DP wasn't keen on the underpinning and response when asked on a few forums. I think a large part was also when it comes to resale, we didn't want to be stuck with a house that was hard to sell on.

IHeartNiles · 09/12/2020 08:53

@Burnthurst187

1997!! I’d have been more than happy to have bought that. What more proof do you need that the problem had been remedied? If >20 years you don’t even have to pay an insurance premium.

It only had a shower room upstairs, too small for a bath which was odd considering it was a three bed semi. DP wasn't keen on the underpinning and response when asked on a few forums. I think a large part was also when it comes to resale, we didn't want to be stuck with a house that was hard to sell on.

Yeah the problem with house buying forums is they full of nit pickers who I suspect never purchase properties. They are not representative of the population.

PresentingPercy · 09/12/2020 09:29

If you are worried about a historic former defect, why would you not ask someone with qualifications to judge? Would you ask a forum about diagnosing an illness - or would you see a doctor? Half the people on MN have no idea about how subsidence is repaired and the fact it makes the foundations stronger. The only thing that needs to happen is that all houses should continue to be monitored. But the neighbours are the ones who should really be more concerned!

homebuyer34 · 06/09/2021 19:04

when you sell the underpinned house, was it easy? Did it take long to sell????
Were there many cracks??

maofteens · 06/09/2021 22:24

I underpinned a house when I added an extra floor. Like pp said, you know if done properly your house should be even more structurally sound, though only if the cause of the subsidence has been dealt with.

IngridTails · 08/09/2021 09:48

My last house was underpinned, a 1920s semi when I extended it.

My friends extension was underpinned recently too a her house is 30 years old.