Estate agent suddenly saying sold as seen

[Ellsiedodah]

What do you make of the following situation? We have an offer on a property which was on at 475 and we offered 490 to secure it. It was a highly competitive market in the present bubble. We only did our second viewing after making the offer. And it's now after a third viewing and a survey were going in for specialist surveys. Estate agent is being extremely passive aggressive about the fact we've asked for all windows to be looked at when sellers have offered to repair 3 of them. Survey said windows are old and need an overhaul and we know no fensa certificates are available. Agent is questioning and saying the property is sold as seen. Weve also seen the bathrooms need a major overhaul, with both floors tiles cracked at the grout, bath tap broken, extractors not working and surveyor saying new mat required. So bathrooms are something where we feel a bit of mo ey off may be appropriate. No electrical certificate provided in spite of having been done 5 years ago. No certificate available for gas boiler serviced last year. Isn't it fair to look into these things? Is the agent just doing his best to put us off a renegotiation but knows we're well within whats standard and reasonable to get specialists to look at things?

You have seen the state of the windows, bathroom, kitchen or whatever, and bid over to secure the property that means you accept their condition and know you need to find money to replace.

So no wonder the EA is being PA

However if you find in the survey something you can’t see at viewing, so roof requires replacing, walls show some subsidence etc then yes you may get away with reducing the offer

But as it is you have offered a price, having viewed a property and knowing what state the rooms, decoration etc was

This happened to me when I sold a flat a few years ago. They'd already been in twice and then tried to haggle down based on it needing a new bathroom. It was patently obvious to anyone viewing once, never mind twice that it needed a new bathroom. I told them to take a hike and sold to another buyer within a day.

Windows - no you should have seen this
Bathroom - no you should have seen the general state (assuming it just needs a new tap to work)
Electrical - if they've done significant work in the last five years then I would be annoyed if they don't have an EIC. I'd probably ask them to pay for a condition report as they should have an EIC.
Gas - no, you'll just have to take their word it was serviced or get your own checks

We negotiated money off when the surveyor said the roof needed replacing entirely

But things like taps and broken tiles are cosmetic and is unlikely to affect the value of the property

Fensa certificates would normally only be available for windows that have been replaced.. If they are old or original windows then you wouldn't expect there to be a certificate.
As for the other stuff, you can specialist reports but you can't really expect a price reduction because of the absence of the certificates. You can get the reports but they are really only relevant insofar as letting you know what expenditure is likely in the next few years. If you want to replace the boiler or electrics, then they are saying that will be at your own cost.

Gas - no, you'll just have to take their word it was serviced or get your own checks

This is wrong. When I sold my parents’ house I had to have the boiler serviced and provide the certificate before exchange.

This is like our old buyers who won the bid, we spoke to them about the boiler before the offer and said how old it was etc but was working fine. They then tried to knock money off to replace the boiler as it was old. BUT YOU KNEW THAT WHEN YOU MADE THE OFFER!

Four years later they've jsut out it up for sale and boiler is still going (or hasn't been replaced anyway.)

Anyway - things you couldn't see what have come up in survey - fine. Bathrooms need replacing - no, you knew that when you made the offer.

We've also seen the bathrooms need a major overhaul, with both floors tiles cracked at the grout, bath tap broken, extractors not working.

You sound like one of those nightmare buyers. If I was the seller, I'd be putting the property back on the market.

Sorry, I think you are being unreasonable as well. You can’t reduce the price because the bathroom or windows needs replacing.

You sound like one of those nightmare buyers. If I was the seller, I'd be putting the property back on the market

I had a buyer who tried to do this to me once. Went into every detail of the survey, and I played ball at the start Ie needed damp proofing etc and I did it, them she started building up a list of minor shit that needed doing and wanting money off If we didn’t do it. Even friggen talking about rhe guttering.

So eventually I just said to the agent, relist it in the morning and tell her the sale is off. I don’t want to hear from her ever again.

He phoned me back and says she promises she won’t try to negotiate any further, but wants to proceed. We genuinely had to think about it very hard. The next day We agreed to proceed, on the condition it was game over and I had no further communication or questions was to come to me, if the agent or solicitor couldn’t deal with it, it was over. If she didn’t like those rules. then relist immediately. We really didn’t care anymore and had no desire to deal with her ever again.

Anyway the sale went through without a peep after that.

If you agree to buy it at a given price, then you buy t at that price, unless something major comes up in the survey you didn’t know about. You don’t offer to get it off the market in the hope you can negotiate it down later. Anyone who does that deserves to loose it.

In my opinion I wouldn't ask for a renegotiation unless the valuation came back lower. When buying a property we know there may be problems and it's why we do surveys. For me, personally, a survey is more an indicator to me of how much work I will have to do. If it goes out of my budget I would walk away. If I could afford it and I loved the house I would invest in it.
I had a survey in my current property. It said everything was fine, but for me there are little things that annoy me, that a surveyor just wouldn't pay attention to. My windows are crap, but they are ok as per the standard. Boiler is only 4 years old but always loses pressure for no reason and was basically remade with parts of the old boiler to make it more eco. Again this wasn't something mentioned in my survey.

Hi all. Wow, an education! I think we've been naive. We didn't notice the state of the bathrooms eg that actual repairs were needed and we've never lived in a house with upvc windows nor had family with them so literally had no clue what we were looking at. Apparently 3 windows are blown but only 1 showed condensation so how would we have known? The other context is that through firther research we've found some flood risk and the survey showed 2 weird manholes inside the house so stuff we couldn't have known has shown up which gave us the jitters in the first place. We aren't arseholes... hadn't put in a high offer expecting to bring the price down. The agent had been so hard selling and we were 3 hours from where we live so we felt we had little choice but to put the offer in after first viewing. But I totally take everyone's points. We could have looked down at the floor, but didn't and we did raise our concern with the extractor fans v soon after making the offer. Though I guess that could be seen as deceptive. Weve got to have a drain survey because of an illegallly covered manhole in the dining room and rights of access to some not entirely known about possibly shared drains... how then to proceed when evidently people are feeling freaked?! Thanks for everyone's honesty. Though would appreciate a bit more gentleness as we didn't do anything underhand deliberately. Just been a bit ignorant i guess.

I'd get really fucking arsey with you and put the house back on the market.

Buyers like you are a total pain in the arse.

Wow, today feels like mumsnet is just great place to vent at people. I don't know why people can't speak nicely?!

Why are people being so rude? There's quite a few things there I'd not be happy about- flood risk, manhole covers, boiler, windows actually broken and not just a bit rusty looking.

Stuff like cracked tiles are not important and that's why I think so many people are going after that, but actually there's some big issues you may want to sort, or even pull out if you don't find satisfactory answers.

And illegal manhole covers are not 'sold as seen' lol

To be fair, the OP didn't mention illegal manhole covers in her opening post. I actually read all her posts before posting.

Those would absolutely be an issue. A scruffy bathroom and a boiler without a certificate - meh.

Hi OP. Have to say I did agree with the pp's about minor issues but personally wouldn't want manholes inside the house. If something doesn't feel right you can walk away.

With that many concerns about the property, maybe you're better off cutting your losses and looking for another house.

No wows needed.

No one was really nasty but I think just honest on the information you provided in your initial post.

Nothing about illegal manholes there. Did they also illegally build an extension?

The flood risk is something that would be one of my first considerations before even viewing.

I hope your survey provides you with some solutions or a valid reason to pull out if that is your desire.

You may have had a different reaction if you had provided the information about the manhole.

Seems a lot of issues for a house priced @ 490k? Is it really worth that?. Sounds more hassle than it’s worth and I’m sure there are plenty nicer houses cheaper with none of the nonsense going on that this house does?...

@Poppingnostopping

And illegal manhole covers are not 'sold as seen' lol

and they were not mentioned in the first post either. It might be nail sick running with damp, or about to fall off a cliff but the fact remains that the OP put in a high offer and then seemingly wanted to haggle over old windows and iffy sanitary ware.

Now she's claiming to be naive, ignorant and pressured.

Tbh with a flood risk and dodgy manhole covers I'd walk anyway.

Aaand here's the massive drip feed once everyone's told you youre being a CF. Could have put money on it.

Buying a house is a huge investment, you clearly have no clue how the process works; and you've done no research. Stuff like flood risk, is available free online; you can check it for yourself before even making an appointment to view. When viewing, you're expected to LOOK HARD at everything visible inside and out. Not the furniture and decor. look for old stains on ceilings, mould, leaky gutters, missing slates, wonky roof, cracks, rotten wood , ancient wiring switches and sockets, black soot marks above open fireplace. Does the place smell damp: or suspiciously of bleach and new paint? Don't comment or discuss; just look.

Drive round the area; look at the neighbourhood, noisy junctions, anything likely to be noisy or smelly (restaurant, pubs, school, factories, ). is there lots of litter, badly maintained buildings, burglar alarms, steel shutters on windows, empty shops and houses?
Or is it a Conservation Area? handy for transport and park? You can virtually walk round the area on google, do it BEFORE you make an appointment. Look up on rightmove, what prices localproperties have sold for and how often Do they sell frequently (why? ) or do people stay there for years?

Find out what surveyors DO (and don't do) . Many estate agents and solicitors websites will explain the process of buying, making offers etc.

Do you want a do-er upper? Do you have DIY skills or any clue what a new bathroom costs? Do you know what surveys, lawyers and legal fees cost? How much mortgage can you raise, how much can you afford to pay out of your regular income? ? Now re-think what your budget really is. Make a realistic wishlist ; number of bedrooms, garden? Ready to move in? Garage or parking? access to schools? Check out the local schools if you will have kids.

All that is your homework. For next time.

Meanwhile pull out of that purchase because you're so badly out of your depth that any sensible seller will probably refuse any further waste of their time. Write it off to experience and do better next time.
Bear mind that if you're hunting in that area, you may have to deal with that estate agent again. So be polite.

Excellent post zookas

Common sense.