Are my buyers bonkers??

[2GinOrNot2Gin]

Put my house on the market in October.
It sold within a day. We had lots of offers and went to best and final. In the end we chose a cash buyer over the highest offer. The buyer offered 9k over the asking price.

I wasn't expecting it to sell so fast and was quite overwhelmed with it all, we were struggling to find something we wanted to buy and felt pressure now we'd sold. I explained this to our buyers when they came for a second view. She said there was no rush and would wait for us to find our perfect house.

2 weeks later we offered on a property. That same day I had a call from the estate agent to say that the buyers were becoming impatient and if we didn't find something soon they would revise their offer. So I said we'd offered and waiting to hear back, Our offer was accepted so problem solved.

I applied for my mortgage the same day our offer was accepted. We had loads of problems with our advisor going on holiday, wrong paper work sent (the advisor not us), questions arising from the underwriter that needed responding to (obvious issues which had been discussed with the mortgage advisor but not passed to underwriter) anyway 4 weeks later I had another call saying if we hold the process up any longer then the buyers will be forwarding a revised offer. So this time I said I won't be accepting a revised offer, they wait or they withdraw. Mortgage offer has since been finalised, took 4.5 weeks in the end which I don't think is unreasonable right now at all.

It's now looking unlikely that we will be completing before Christmas, they have a set date in mind because of removal companies but we won't meet this due to the legal side now they're saying if we don't complete before 21 December they'll need to extend their rental agreement by 3 months and this will need to be deducted from the sale price. I've said no, not my problem.. I applied for my searches right at the start, the buyers applied for them once we had out mortgage offer, that was their choice. And it seems out of the 3 of us in the chain, their solicitors are useless!!

So because I've refused this they're now saying they want it agreed that if we don't complete before the stamp duty holiday that the stamp duty will be covered by us.

I'm so fed up of them is this normal?? I've never sold before, this was our first home. Seems like they've paid above the asking price and are now trying to creep back down. Why offer what you aren't willing to pay? The stubborn side of me wants to pull from the sale altogether but I know that would be silly. I'm taking it personally and it isn't personal. I didn't want to move, my husband did, I love my home and I just don't want them to get it anymore, silly I know!!

Sounds like they are desperately trying to claw back some money from you. They are being CF. Up to you whether you accept their terms or not. Presumably you will lose money if have to go back on the market?

Our last Buyer was a total CF, constantly looking for money off for everything from removed chimney breasts that had never been there in the first place through to a discount as our neighbour started a bit of building work.

We really really love our current house and just kept giving in feeling we were way too far down the road to pull out. So over to you, how upset would you be to loose the new property? If you could live with it, play hardball more I think. If they want the property then they’ll continue the process.

I would ask the agents to go back to the list of 'best and final' people and see who may still be interested. You know then if you have easily available other options and are therefore in a position of strength.

This does my head in
It takes as long as it takes
Given that some buyers won’t take you seriously until you’ve got a buyer for your house, what the hell are you supposed to do. 2 weeks is a perfectly reasonable amount of time to find a house.
Bear in mind that estate agents are not above telling lies (mine told my buyers that I was in a hurry, I wasn’t)
Also, things with solicitors are slow even in non Covid times
Also, their cash buyer status isn’t that attractive, it’s not the diamond status people seem to think. The mortgage part of the process isn’t the bit that takes the longest.
Stamp duty holiday ends in 4 months, I’m sure it’ll be done by then!

I would loose money if we went back to market but honestly I'd rather loose that money than allow them to pressure me into reducing the price just because they can!

I wouldn't care if we lost the new house, as I said I didn't want to move so therefore failed to love any house I viewed. I like the new house and I think when we've done the required work I'll love it but the idea of another renovation makes me want to cry!!

I'd probably feel differently if I really wanted to move and if I loved the house but right now I'm quite happy to be stubborn. I just wasn't sure if this was normal or if it's them being difficult!

I know someone else who has managed to get the stamp duty covered by their buyers if time runs out so I know it is something that people do but I think it's well cheeky. We are prepared for stamp duty costs and if we complete before then we have more to spend on renovations but I hear house sales are going really really slowly so I did factor stamp duty in. But not for the people who are buying our house!!

Push back, if they sense a weakness, the demands will keep coming.

I would ask the estate agent (who you are paying) to explain to the vendors that you had multiple offers for the propety, and if the vendors are not willing to accept the original terms, which you based your decisions on, then you will go back to market.

It is not being personal, it is both parties agreeing and sticking to the terms.

I made the mistake last sale of showing flexibilty in what I was going to leave in the kitchen. After they had all my appliances, they wanted my garden furniture or they would pull out. I had the EA explain that the dishwaser, oven and fridge were all they would get, and any further demands, would terminate the sale proceedings.

Be firm, from what you are saying, you are not being emotional or petty.

Offering on a property in October as part of a chain and expecting to be in by Christmas is well optimistic. It does sound like they're being CFs. Tell them you'll be going back to the other bidder if the keep acting the goat, like Senua says.

I don't think you're being silly but also don't think they are bonkers. Just say no on the stamp duty thing. Making threats to reduce price or to pull out are basically all the levers they have, and they are pulling them to try to save themselves a few thousand pounds. If they are truly serious - and it is an "if" - then yeah maybe they are a bit bonkers but you just keep saying no and if they walk, it is their loss.

You hold a lot of cards, it sounds like you will would be able to replace them pretty easily. I would be tempted to mention that you had x offers including a higher one, and you are doing your best. If there are any blockers you control then do your bit by chasing very regularly, and communicate that you are doing this. The whole thing is just very fraught and stressful.

They are bonkers as at the moment, we are in the middle of a pandemic and it's holding up lots of parts of conveyancing and mortgage offers are taking longer. That's just the way it is right now. Be firm, if they strop off, let them, they won't get the stamp duty holiday/fast conveyancing elsewhere right now, put it back on the market.

Although from what you've said it sounds like you don't want to move and moving is making you think this more and more- do you have to? Can you discuss this again? if you don't want to do another renovation, why are you? Surely it has to be a joint project for both of you?

I would be tempted to mention that you had x offers including a higher one, and you are doing your best.

Me too. They're trying it on because they think they're in a stronger position than they really are.

Personally, I'd just keep telling them to piss off. Or your more tactful equivalent, So this time I said I won't be accepting a revised offer, they wait or they withdraw.

I think the point about the stamp duty is fair. That’s a long time for them to wait if they are paying in cash and the mistakes have not been on their side.

@Joynot reason we chose cash buyers is because the higher offer was 11.5k over the asking price and they had the minimum deposit so a mortgage application would of been risky.
I think the fact they are cash buyers is why they feel they can start moving the goal posts.

@Ro198

I think the point about the stamp duty is fair. That’s a long time for them to wait if they are paying in cash and the mistakes have not been on their side.

I don't think there has been any mistakes.. 4.5 weeks for a mortgage application isn't that long currently. I chased and chased the mortgage and pushed it through quicker purely because the sellers of our purchase have had 2 failed sales due to mortgages being refused so I wanted to reassure them as soon as possible. The current hold up is their solicitors because they held off applying for searches until our mortgage offer was final, our searches are complete and currently awaiting a few confirmations about questions they highlighted. Their solicitors have sent documents with incorrect information and had our names spelt wrong even though they are very standard names. Our sellers have a good local solicitor, and they are good to go, no onward purchase. we have a good local solicitor, they've gone for a cheap off the internet solicitor who are terrible at responding to my solicitor so not much more we could do.

Sorry I wasn’t clear in my last post, I mean the end of March would be a long wait, there would have to be mistakes in the process if it took that long, and if it’s not due to their side I think it would be fair to expect it to be paid as they are not in a chain.

I don’t think they should ask you to cover the stamp duty but apart from that I don’t think they’re bonkers.
It’s a few years since I’ve bought a house but surely you get the mortgage sorted before finding a house and putting an offer in. You then finalise the amount / get a valuation when you’ve found a property.
I’d not be too happy if you didn’t do that beforehand and I had to wait 4.5 weeks.

4 weeks for a mortgage is absolutely normal at the moment. Having an AiP beforehand, I applied for the mortgage as soon as my offer was accepted and it took precisely 4 weeks to get an approval plus five days to receive the letter.

@Idontgiveagriffindamn they knew our position though. We couldn't really get an offer upfront as we were looking for a house to do up, so mortgage amount and how much we'd need to hold back would of varied depending on the house we purchased. They were told all this upfront so was their choice to proceed. They sold their house 8 weeks before they offered on ours so they said they understood how important it was for us to find something we really wanted so not then fair to use it against us.

Could you play them at there own game. Say we will complete on the 21st December and go into rented if you are ready.
If they're still waiting on searches it's unlikely they will be anyway.
Would it be an option to do? Go into short term rental then you get the top price for your house. If they're not ready on 21st, that's not your fault.

Cash buyers mean less risk and faster turnaround. They are the better type of buyers in general, but right now, during covid and recession, much more rare and reliable. How proceedable were the other offers? Are any of those people still in a position to proceed? Will there be additional/longer chains? Lots more sales fall through - fa more than ever before. I don't think your buyers are bonkers at all and I think that if you truly wanted to sell you'd be much more willing to negotiate. But you don't really want to sell so that makes the situation complicated. If you lose these buyers, what do you think will happen next? Are you fine spending many more months selling the house, and almost definitely reaching the stamp duty deadline, or will you just stay put and be quite happy not to sell at all?

To people saying that 4.5 weeks is a long time to wait for a mortgage offer, it absolutely isn't at the moment! We are waiting to exchange on our new house (temporarily in rented as our house sold very quickly) and although we had an offer in principle before offering and the mortgage is approx 30% of the value of the house, it still took three weeks before the bank's surveyor (they still insisted on doing one) made the appointment for two weeks in advance and then another five days for the report to come through to the bank. It was like banging our head off a brick wall to get them to move any faster.

@SecretOfChange

Cash buyers mean less risk and faster turnaround. They are the better type of buyers in general, but right now, during covid and recession, much more rare and reliable. How proceedable were the other offers? Are any of those people still in a position to proceed? Will there be additional/longer chains? Lots more sales fall through - fa more than ever before. I don't think your buyers are bonkers at all and I think that if you truly wanted to sell you'd be much more willing to negotiate. But you don't really want to sell so that makes the situation complicated. If you lose these buyers, what do you think will happen next? Are you fine spending many more months selling the house, and almost definitely reaching the stamp duty deadline, or will you just stay put and be quite happy not to sell at all?

I'm not willing to negotiate because we haven't done anything to hold up the sale. They knew we didn't have a final mortgage offer and they knew we didn't have a property to move into. If our mortgage offer was declined and we had to reapply elsewhere or if we were getting into weeks and weeks of searching and not finding anywhere then maybe they'd have reason to be unhappy and reduce their offer to compensate but actually things have moved pretty quick. I'm well aware I'm being stubborn but only because this was all made clear to them so to use it against us after 2 weeks i feel is a tactic they always intended to use. Currently our sellers are ready to go, they have a rented house, the house we're buying is almost empty. As soon as their solicitor has answered the questions from our searches then we're almost ready to. But our buyers have only just applied for searches so why would I negotiate a lower price when it's them we're waiting for.

They are definitely trying to recoup some of their money from you. Watch out for the day of exchange when they might pull this again.

Are you dealing with your agent (or is your husband?) Perhaps change tactics - if your husband is dealing, get onto the agent yourself. They might up their game in keeping the sale going, if they realise how close fed up you obviously are with them.

Our sellers pulled similar on exchange - suddenly wanted us to find another 5% (they were completely bonkers) The sellers had messed us around, holding up the sale firstly by telling us they were going into rental and then 2 months into the process, telling us they were buying a grand 2 listed building! This held everything up massively! I was well and truly fed up by exchange and just wanted the whole thing to be over, house or no house. I told the agent I didn’t particularly have any desire to move (which was true, I loved our old house, my husband wanted to move to be closer to his work) and would pull out unless we exchanged that day. This was at 1.55pm, we had exchanged by 2.20pm. They knew I was serious and didn’t want their commission to go down the toilet!!

@2GinOrNot2Gin I agree you've done nothing wrong to delay the process. You are well within your rights to refuse to negotiate and maybe lose the buyer as a result. I just think that 9K over asking price by a cash buyer is too good to be true, and they're now trying to get to a more reasonable price.

Stamp duty request is a reasonable one, I think.

OP I'd proceed but be strong with your boundaries.

We sold a property on behalf of elderly MIL in 2019 and there were many CF requests through the process - then on exchange date they announced we'd need to accept £10K lower than they'd offered or they'd walk.

We said no, and they backed down. But if it had been more personal / not my MIL's money, the pressure would have been immense - even our agent was suggesting we "meet them halfway to get it over the line"!!!

Some people I believe will make an offer on the basis that whatever happens they'll reduce by x amount at the last minute... I.e. nothing to do with you or your mortgage etc etc, just what they always had planned to do.

I think it is incredibly important to make your position clear before any more time and money is wasted. Good luck!