Time / disruption of building works

[SerialRelocator]

We're in the process of buying a house. To combat my bad case of cold feet, I've been planning how we could make the house suit our taste / lifestyle more. Problem is that we really do not do that well with disruption and workmen in the house.
So, if I wanted to create a large kitchen diner + utility which, as a minimum will involve removing (structural?) walls, building a new (internal) wall, moving radiators, possibly boiler, water, electrics, updating windows & doors, new floors + designing & installing the actual kitchen and utility and, finally, also create a new opening to the living room ... This excludes any extension.
So, how much disruption are we looking at, and for how long? Would we need to move out for a while? Are we looking at a month, 3 months, more? Is anyone who has done similar happy to share their experience?

Hi OP,

I'm currently in the middle of a similar kitchen project. Removing an internal structural wall and a non structural wall, creating a new opening for new doors and sealing up an existing door, new windows, new kitchen etc.

We started at the end of September and builder says we should be finished the kitchen week. I think realistically it will be 2 but I will be happy to be wrong. So that's all told about 2 to 2 1/2 months.

We kept as much of the existing kitchen in place at the start of the project as possible however I've been feeding a family of 5 with a kettle/toaster and a microwave for the last 6 weeks and I can tell you it's getting a bit old now! We are fortunate to have a separate reception room which we're using as a kitchen living room with some storage, the microwave etc in there and the fridge/freezer in the hall. We've used the downstairs loo sink for water. We've also used paper plates and disposable cutlery as much as we can.

Our timescales are probably slower then they need to be because we're using a single builder, he has a labourer but it is mainly just him and then getting other trades in when we need to so a separate electrician and a different door/window company.

He's also a perfectionist which is good for the eventual finish but not good for speed! If you want things to go more quickly you can get building company in who will have more men on it and reduce the overall timelines. We have the rest of our house to do after this so we are going to be living in squalor for the next 6 monthsish. It will be worth it in the end though (I repeat this like a mantra every morning when I wipe the dust off the kettle!)

Our last project was much bigger than this one and we didn't live on site but the time before was similar to this and we did so I have experience of both. This level of work is more annoying than unbearable but everyone's tolerance levels are different. I can honestly say though that if you can afford not to live through it (i.e. it won't affect what you want to achieve in the end) and you really don't like disruption then move out!

Not sure if any of this is any help or answered your questions?

Thanks so much for answering @SollaSollew, that is really helpful.

It sounds like a very painful process, but at least you are near the end now. We have had smaller works done before in our current house, but before we moved in so that was easier (but still stressful).

Glad you think it's all worth it. Not proud of my lack of tolerance to noise, mess and chaos generally, but neither am I in denial about it!
We've been doubting so much that we've questioned whether to proceed with the purchase. I probably wouldn't if I thought there was a realistic chance of getting a house with the right layout, right location and right garden in the the not too distant future but the chances of that happening are very slim.

Am definitely a bit scared! 😢

Suggest you aim to have it done in the Spring/Summer. Much easier to go out for a walk and don't need to worry about being cold with no heating! That's what we planned for our work - 12 weeks and was due to start in April. Started in late August in the end so almost finished. We moved out.

I think moving out for at least the noisiest/ most disruptive part might be best. However, that's probably easier to achieve if we plan work for low season so that we can get a 2 month holiday let. Dreading it already.

I know what you mean OP I dont like disruption and noise either.
Might be worth looking at other houses?

I am still keeping an eye on what else is coming on the market @trickyex and we would happily pay more for something that already has the right layout. However, recently nothing like that has come on the market that is also in a location / position that we are happy with, and with the right outside space. Well, maybe 1 or 2 have but at 50-70% higher sale price. If not this one - and we're not yet 100% committed - then we are likely in for a long wait.

In that case maybe its worth committing some of the budget to renting funds so you can stay elsewhere while the worst of the work is done?
Any perhaps paying a bit more to get it done/managed by one larger firm?
HAve you asked local agents to keep a look out for you?

We would likely book a holiday let during the worst if the works. Even if a better house had popped up in the last few weeks (it hasn't), we wouldn't have been able to view it as relocating and couldn't have stayed overnight during lockdown.
There is one other property that could be of interest if this purchase doesn't go ahead but needs even more doing.
Good idea though to see if we can get it managed by one company.

Its a hard time to buy...
I have managed the renovation of three houses and have always used separate trades. But it takes much longer, is a lot more hassle and is difficult getting problems resolved as no one takes responsibility.
It costs more to get it looked after by one firm but sounds like it would probably be worth it.

Wow three renovations when you don't like noise or disruption. Respect!
I think us finding and managing all the separate trades with few, if any, contacts in the new area would be asking for trouble really.

In hindsight it was a very bad idea.
I think it is much harder in a new area too.
Hopefully it will all pan out smoothly for you!

Some builders are very good at minimising mess and disruption. Our current ones are really good, and it’s been such a pleasant surprise after bad experiences in the past. They always leave the house tidy at the end of each day, with mess removed and tools tidied. They are friendly and considerate, and communicate well about when the noisiest/messiest work will take place so that it avoids times that are bad for us. They coordinate and supply all the different trades, which takes a lot of the pain away.

It’s worth asking around and getting personal recommendations of tidy builders. I think it’s just as important as the quality of their work, personally.

How big is the house? Would you have space to install a temporary kitchen somewhere, so the builders could effectively board off the back of the house and you live in the rest? That would make it a lot more tolerable.

Wow, your builders sound like a godsend @VenusClapTrap. Don't suppose you're anywhere near Gloucestershire?

The house is a decent size @minipie, about 2200 sq ft, but the changes we're hoping to do will span the entire width and depth of the house.

Can't shake the feeling that we are biting of more than we can chew...
There is only 1 house I've seen advertised that fits what we want without masses of work (or a lottery win), but it has been sstc since July so unlikely to come back on now.

Sorry, no, long way from Gloucestershire!

Hi again @SerialRelocator.

My builder is great but him having to consider how long we could keep existing kitchen in place and ordering work around the least disruption to us has inevitably also extended the project. If you can get a holiday let for 2 months which meant that the a good set of builders could really crack on without having to consider your needs only getting the project done then I think the kitchen/diner/utility could be done in that time period.

Is that the only part of the house you'd want to renovate though or would you need to do more afterwards? Everything in our renovation after the kitchen is going to be much, much less disruptive as we have a two full bathrooms and a downstairs loo so only one will be out of action at a time as an example.

We're having a complete rewire and replaster, repaint and central heating, which affects the whole house.

New bathroom upstairs.

Downstairs - small extension for new kitchen, replace wall between 2 living rooms, knock through between back room and previous kitchen leading into new extension. Plus downstairs toilet in hall cupboard.

It is taking about 10 weeks, minus installation of new kitchen (because can't finalise the order until extension is finished and ready for installation - but in the meantime everything will be ready, pipes and electrics in the right place etc so we can use it for a fridge freezer and table top cooker). It would take longer if the workmen needed to pack away and clean each evening, then unpack again in the morning.

In reality, about 8 weeks where it is un-livable and we have moved in with family locally. The final 2 weeks are starting, and the bedrooms are finished so we are unpacking and getting those straightened out, and the bathroom is almost finished. It would be livable if necessary for evenings and weekends, but as we have no deadline we are staying put until it is complete (minus kitchen units).

Also when I'm having a cr@ppy day and get fed up I remind myself I would really rather put up with the disruption to end up with a house that I'd renovated and is exactly as I want it rather than pay more for what someone else likes.

I do love interiors and the design process though (it's a creative outlet I just don't get in my day job) so I appreciate this may not be anything other than another stress to someone else!

How do you feel about it outside of the disruption?

I've lived through a couple of renovations now. They're like childbirth - you soon forget how fucking awful it was.

The length of time the work takes obviously depends on how big the team is, and living in the property while they work drags it out if they have to spend time every day making it habitable for you, and doubling up on work to make sure you have, for example, water and heat at all times.

The last renovation (2 years ago now) we went on holiday for 2 weeks to coincide with the knocking down of walls. We couldn't afford to move out for a couple of months so we had to live with the rest of the work for 4 months.

Gosh, lots of interesting questions.

We would want to do more to turn it into a house I love rather than tolerate in order to get the garden, view and good location. Not as major but increasing window sizes in living room, which will require radiators to be replaced and moved, change the glass in every single window in the house, change front and back doors and change all flooring.
I appreciate this makes ithe house sound like a wreck but it really isn't. Actually, it is in very good condition and tasteful (but not my taste), which makes all that effort and money even harder to justify.
But, if we don't buy it then we either put our lives on hold whilst we wait and wait some more, and/or move into rented (we live several hours from this new location) which we also don't like and might be hard to find with pets.

I guess my biggest problem is one of expectation. We both thought this time we'd be able to get what we wanted for the budget. Not entirely unrealistic except there is hardly any property coming on the market.

For what it's worth, I do appreciate we are incredibly fortunate to have these choices to start with. I also know we will likely be fine once the uncertainty over the purchase passes and we get stuck in.

Lots of you have gone through pretty major renovations it seems. To what extent did you worry about whether you were adding enough value to pay for the works in the event you had to / wanted to sell ? Or was it more about getting the right house to suit your family.
Obviously, adding square footage tends to add value. However, I'm not sure whether reconfiguring, opening up etc would add any ££, despite costing nearly as much.

@kolo - Hope you are right that the pain is soon forgotten!

We did broadly the same, took 5 months with a delay on the kitchen delivery

We haven’t worried at all about adding value. In fact, we’ve dropped a bedroom in favour of an extra bathroom, which theoretically reduces the value of the house. However, I think that what we’ve done makes the house much more liveable, so it would appeal to more buyers and sell more quickly. That isn’t our motivation though; we are just seeking to make it perfect for us, as we intend to be here for at least 20 years. If we eventually move, it will be to downsize because we are too decrepit, so we won’t need an increase in value.

I envy you for that level of certainty re staying for 20 years @VenusClapTrap. We always hope / think we might stay somewhere for a long time but, as you can see from my username, haven't achieved it yet!

I am also hoping for 20 years love the location and it has good transport links to employment hubs, DD in school for another 5 years or so and this is well placed for a variety of post-18 options, good local leisure and shopping facilities. We're developing a network of local friendships.

So, that has steered my decisions on what to include. It is going to work out at about £75,000, and I would guess (if the market was the same as when we bought, which it won't be!) about £50,000-60,000 of that would be recouped at sale, depending on who exactly is looking and what else is on the market.

The price we paid reflected the need for rewiring, new kitchen and bathroom, new boiler, and redecorating throughout. The extension would probably increase the price by at least as much as it cost to build, the central heating will add some value. Downstairs toilet? Not sure, but with a 3 bedroomed house and one bathroom it can only make it more attractive.

Some more cosmetic decisions, e.g. complete re-plastering rather than patching up, replacing skirting boards rather than patching existing ones, the quality of some of the fittings, reflect that this is our long term home and chosen because they will last in the long run and/or suit our taste so will add to our enjoyment. The big costs are labour, so slightly more expensive fittings are proportionately not that much.

In terms of downstairs layout, I would guess moving from one big living room and a separate small kitchen to one big living room (opening into kitchen extension) PLUS moderate size living room/home office would add value in the current climate. It means we will have a good sized family living room/dining area/kitchen extension opening onto a patio and garden at the back, and a home office with a couple of comfy chairs for peaceful cups of tea at the front. I could see that suiting a range of living arrangements.

It will suit our lifestyle better (probably a 60/40 split post COVID towards working from home) and probably a good number of people will be in the same position going forward. But who knows what the housing market will be like in 20+ years?

If I get a windfall at some point I would add a loft bedroom and en-suite...