Would you consider moving into a flat rather than a house?

[frolicmum]

We've been looking around for a while and given that we have number 2 on the way, our budget does not stretch further than 650k and I found this flat rather than a house. I adore it. Pictures for our house will be taken next Tuesday and it will then hit the market. The estimate is 475k.

Area: Bromley/ Eltham / Orpington

What do you think about this flat and what are the downsides of buying a large flat rather than a house?

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/85501792

It’s a beautiful flat and I can see why you’d be tempted.

But I wouldn’t do it myself due to bad experiences dealing with neighbours and communal maintenance responsibilities. I’m currently trying to sell a flat in a building that should have had its exterior painted and balcony repaired eight years ago, but due to differing opinions between flat owners regarding what level of work is needed/acceptable, nothing has been done and it looks awful. And it’s been eight years of stress and arguments. I will have to sell it for less than it’s worth just to get able to walk away - and I cannot wait to do so. I’d never buy a flat again.

Having lived in numerous flats and then a house, I would never go back to a flat in a million years. Sorry OP.

It looks lovely.

The leasehold, bathroom on the ground floor, having neighbours above and below..all things I'd be willing to take on for the right property.

No direct access to the garden (even if it is a private garden) would be a deal breaker for me.

The benefits of having a garden would be lost:
Kids able to potter in and out and play outside with minimal supervision.
Wandering out to the patio with a coffee in your dressing gown on lazy days!
Sitting with the doors open when you want a 'bit of outside' only.
Being able to nip in and out when having a BBQ or kids in the paddling pool needing a towel.

It wouldn't be used anywhere near as much as a direct access garden, it's more like a (very short) trip to the park.

If could buy a house for a similar price in the same area then I would be really hesistant to buy a flat.

I think the flat looks beautiful - own garden, garage for storage - just make sure you get a good solicitor to check the leasehold

There's so many threads on here at the moment about neighbours falling out over kids making noise in flats that there's no way I'd choose a flat over a house. I've considered it at a similar stage as you, when it was a nice flat that was part of a big period house and in a good catchment but we went for the 1930s semi instead with no regrets. When we drive past the flat now I'm so relieved we weren't seduced by ceiling height etc. It would have a been too a big compromise in other ways. It also had a private garden but not one that the kids could access directly from the flat so they'd have needed constant supervision and it just wouldn't have worked for us.

I think the awful leasehold issues are overstated. As the purchaser, you would own the lease. The freeholder owns the building. Usually maintenance is done via a managing agent. The freeholder owns the fabric of the building. They pay for major repairs. Should you wish to buy, your solicitor would go through your responsibilities and those of the freeholder. They would also have details from the vendor of fees for maintenance - these can be high if gardening and work is programmed in.

There are sound proofing issues in conversions of some older flats. We have a Victorian conversion flat and sound proofing was put in by the developer. It’s pretty effective. Others can be noisy.

You can have awful neighbours in any street.

I think the awful leasehold issues are overstated.

I wouldn’t say they are. Out of the flats I’ve owned, majority were fine but a minority (and not a tiny minority either) were a nightmare. That’s leasehold or share of freehold (just a different set of issues).

“The freeholder owns the fabric of the building. They pay for major repairs”

Eh? The freeholder bills the leaseholders for the major repairs. I was billed £20,000 - and that was in the mid ‘90s - for new replacement windows, painting the exterior of the building and work to the roof.
And the scaffolding that was put up meant I was then burgled...

Anyway, it’s different buying a flat in an area you aspire to but can’t afford a house in vs this situation of being able to afford a proper family house in areas the OP likes.

I understand why you don’t want to live over 3 levels, OP, but you could also see if you can find a cheaper, unmodernised semi on a wider plot that would lend itself to a two-storey extension (provided you’ll have enough cash for the work).

the listing says it is first and second floor, and private garden.

The pics show 4 floors, which suggests to me, ground floor, first, floor, second floor, third floor. You then own half of the house, so bills will be split so you pay 50%.

But the photos also show a large door from ground floor flat into the garden.

That suggests:
either the back garden belongs ot the ground floor, and your private garden is elsewhere, eg front, or second half of the bakc garden
OR that door is old and blocked up
OR your flat is actually ground floor plus first floor. I have to say that ground + first is MUCH more attractive, direct access to the garden, and no need to worry about noise from your kids to underneath neighbours, and you can put a whole floor between you and them if you need to (so if baby screaming in the night you could go down to your living room, and be a long way from neighbours.

It is a beautiful looking flat, and I think it is lovely

The freeholder collects large managment fees annually and can hit you with a bill for £££ if they decide the communal areas need redecorating or the roof needs fixing.
They choose the contractors.
In our case, we were left for a whole weekend with no roof, the whole block flooded and it took 5 years to sort out the damage.
Never again.
Did anybody watch Panorama last Tuesday? I know they covered shared ownership too, as well as leasehold properties, but it was pretty shocking.

There was a law passed which allowed leaseholders to buy out the freeholder. I took advantage of it and bought my flat together with the upstairs flat. Then no more management fees, but then he and I had to agree to work done.

Expensive in some places though

Hello Everyone, we're seeing the flat on Monday so I can ask all the questions there and then.

What I now know is that there separate entrance but it is stairs so I need to see what that looks like as I am not going to carry up the pram every time, so if there is no shed or anything where I can be stored in a safe and try place, it wouldn't be suitable.

The garden is private and accessible from that door, the owners now seem to coming in through the back where the garages are and also park there, rather than the front which we can see. I cannot see that the flat has ever been listed on the market since 1997 (latest date), so the owners seem to have been in there for long time which is a good sign.

I'll have a look and see and ask the relevant questions, I can then make a decision.

OR your flat is actually ground floor plus first floor.

It's the top two floors, you can tell from the sloping ceilings in the bedrooms and the arrangement of the windows vs the exterior shots.

It is a beautiful flat, but flats are not places to raise a small family

Tell that to millions of people in European/Asian cities. This is quite a stuck-up viewpoint that I only hear in the UK.

@CountFosco

OR your flat is actually ground floor plus first floor.

It's the top two floors, you can tell from the sloping ceilings in the bedrooms and the arrangement of the windows vs the exterior shots.

it may be, but that doesn't fit with listing - first and second floor?

@BeijingBikini I do agree. A lot of families raise their children in flats, even in the UK and a lot smaller than that very flat. It's 170m2, it's HUGE.

It struck me that the flat had probably been owned by a couple whose child(ren) have left home. It looks very well cared for, even though the kitchen is a little dated.

There's a lot to be said for having higher ceilings!

A lot of managing agents set fees to cover planned maintenance. My DDs flat has had maintenance and no extra was charged. Not all lease holders are ripped off and you have to know what the position is before you buy. What are the windows like? Is the roof sound? It’s no different to freehold in terms of getting a survey done. If there is major work to be done, it costs however you own it.

If it was so awful, people would not buy leasehold - but they do. I think purpose built is better with good sound proofing but not all leasehold is bad. Far from it.

i would not buy anything that is leasehold no.

What I now know is that there separate entrance but it is stairs so I need to see what that looks like as I am not going to carry up the pram every time, so if there is no shed or anything where I can be stored in a safe and try place, it wouldn't be suitable.

The garden is private and accessible from that door

Just having a place to store the pram isn’t really a full solution though. You’d have to take the baby and all the baby/toddler kit out of the buggy and carry baby and everything else up the stairs with you, every time. What if your baby has fallen asleep in the buggy and you want to let them carry on sleeping (very common with child 2!)

Garden down some stairs is not a patch on garden directly from your kitchen or sitting room, even if it’s private, for all the reasons mentioned above.

I know you’ve fallen in love with this flat but really I think you will kick yourself especially once you are grappling with two kids. Based on a PP, it seems you can afford a house in the same area, it will just be a less visually exciting 30s semi? I love this building and prefer Edwardian to 30s but with young children I’d still pick the 30s semi every time. Up to you though!

If it was so awful, people would not buy leasehold - but they do

Usually only if they can’t get freehold for the same price in the same area.

I would never, ever buy a flat or get involved with leasehold. I cannot understand why anyone would unless it was all they could afford.

Neighbours to the right, to the left, above, below and no private garden of your own. For the same price as a house? No way.

Is definitely go for one of the houses @OnlyFoolsnMothers suggested over that flat, albeit beautiful