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SHARED OWNERSHIP

48 replies

20questions · 23/11/2020 14:16

PANORAMA - All about Shared Ownership - this Wednesday 25th November at 7.30 pm.
If you or anyone you know is thinking about buying a shared ownership property, this programme is for you!
(Should come with a health warning..)
The new shared ownership model is an ugly beast..

OP posts:
ldnirish · 23/11/2020 15:40

We're trying to get out of our shared ownership property now. What a scam!!

20questions · 23/11/2020 16:44

@ldnirish A terrible scan and set to get even worse. I belong to various campaigning groups, one of which was very involved in making this programme. We want to warn people about the truth of Shared Ownership/Affordable Housing. It may have worked some time ago, but this new model is a different beast entirely.

OP posts:
clouds87 · 23/11/2020 16:56

We bought a shared ownership house 5 yrs ago... watching with interest (and worry) we would like to move in the future to somewhere fully owned so we don’t pay rent forever. Has anyone managed this without lots of hassle Confused

ComtesseDeSpair · 23/11/2020 17:07

In what way is it a scam? Genuine question. Surely you agree to clear terms of a lease when you buy a shared ownership property. You might decide later on that you don’t really like those terms or you regret signing up to them, but that’s not the same as having been scammed.

LajesticVantrashell · 23/11/2020 18:43

I’d like to know this too @clouds87 - almost identical situation. Bought a period SO house six years ago. Very sought after area, very nice house, looking to sell in the next 18 months and interested to see what issues we’d face selling it (it’s in very good condition, we’ve done a lot to it)

kaylaj1 · 23/11/2020 20:20

They need to do one on the “help” to buy

OrcharD14 · 23/11/2020 21:02

Please explain how the new model is different.
I know 2 couples who’ve done really well out of shared ownership & now have a high amount of equity. They had no family money so would’ve been consigned to private renting without this opportunity.

ForensicAccountant · 23/11/2020 21:29

Shared ownership has worked well in the rising market in the last 20 years and can be useful if you are at the start of your career and expect your salary to increase to enable you to buy the whole of the property.
I do know though that people have mortgaged themselves up to the hilt to buy 30% of a flat with no prospect of ever buying the rest.
You really are still a renter with the full responsibility of a home owner (repairs).
You may find it difficult to sell as limited number of people meet the criteria for SO. Plus HA has to agree to the valuation - good luck trying to sell at a value that might be less than what you paid for it.

OrcharD14 · 23/11/2020 21:37

In the aforementioned cases, the housing association only had a window of about 6 weeks to find a buyer, & as they failed to do so, my friends sold through an estate agent, at full market value & then simply gave the H.A. their share. As a result, these 2 properties are longer available as affordable housing.

lboogy · 23/11/2020 21:40

What's the scam? I bought with shared ownership 10 years ago. Started with 50%, had a rise in income and bought the rest. Used the equity to cover the deposit for the half I didn't own.
I always say to people in shared ownership to overpay on the mortgage - it helps massively when looking to staircase since you're 'saving' towards a deposit for the next staircase up

20questions · 24/11/2020 15:36

To those who have done well, that's great.
However SO and HTB are now very much monetised models (as often are new build estate properties). The freeholds are bought by large investment vehicles who then "sweat the assets". They go on perfectly legitimate courses to learn all the ways to do so. Lots of pension funds buy into these as part of their portfolios as they are seen in the investment market as "soft" investments I.e. safe investments as leaseholders have little rights.
The leaseholds are often written in highly complex legalese which normal conveyancers/solicitors fail to understand, let alone explain to the potential buyer.

Many who buy under these schemes find they are financially choked by uncapped and unregulated service charges, permission fees, estate charges, leasehold extensions, onerous ground rent terms etc. Their homes are monetised by large corporate companies who use your home as an ongoing income stream.
Statistically I believe only around 2% of people in these schemes have gone in to staircase to 100%.
The CMA are currently investigating these schemes and the main developers who build them, for mis-selling and for lack of transparency.
As I said further up the post, if you are one of the lucky ones who have had a good experience, that's good to hear.
However for those thinking of buying this way, just research thoroughly. And always use a good, independent, leasehold specialist solicitor no matter what incentives you are offered by the developers, to use one of their "recommended" ones.

OP posts:
FangsForTheMemory · 24/11/2020 15:51

I had a shared ownership home. It increased in value very rapidly after I bought it still couldn’t afford to staircase up. Biggest issue for me was getting the freeholders to do necessary repairs. There was a sink fund for large repairs but it never covered them and in recent years we got some very large bills. I wouldn’t say it’s an option for people on low incomes. Selling was a difficult and lengthy process and took more than a year from start to finish.

RedToothBrush · 24/11/2020 21:22

We had shared ownership and staircased. Its a minefield and we were very aware of how if it only just worked for our circumstances it was going to be dreadful for others.

I think it has a place, but I do think people who buy into it rarely properly understand what they are getting into and it can be a real trap that I can easily see turning into a nightmare.

I wouldn't recommend it in most circumstances tbh.

mumsy27 · 25/11/2020 02:16

recently sold our SO flat after staircasing to 100%.
it is a blessing, rent for 50% around £340 PM, service charge £95.
property in central london zone2/1.
lived there almost 20 years.
I tought SO are run by social landlord(housing association).
if you have issues maybe because they are leasehold flat like any other flat, SO is irrelevant.
best thing I did.

mumsy27 · 25/11/2020 02:17

ohh ground rent is peppercorn.

Readandwalk · 25/11/2020 02:19

I did shared ownership in London in 2005. Only way as a teacher to get a mortgage. Walked away in 2017, with 150k. Totally worth it.

DianaT1969 · 25/11/2020 05:14

I have noticed that service charges are disproportionately high. A 5 story block with 2 lifts, fob entry door, no garden, no parking, was £160 per month 10 years ago when I was looking. Zone 5 London.

RedToothBrush · 25/11/2020 08:10

@mumsy27

recently sold our SO flat after staircasing to 100%. it is a blessing, rent for 50% around £340 PM, service charge £95. property in central london zone2/1. lived there almost 20 years. I tought SO are run by social landlord(housing association). if you have issues maybe because they are leasehold flat like any other flat, SO is irrelevant. best thing I did.
Our mortgage was about £600. Our rent started at under £200 but crept up to over £300 in the space of 7 years and was continuing to rise. The mortgage on the entire property worked out at £800.

The service charge was about £120 per year but we had no control over it and its likely to skyrocket.

I know other people were on different schemes on the estate and the later ones were far less favourable than ours. Some were silly money.

And it was through a house association not private but they were so poorly run it wasn't funny.

They even sent us demands for rent after we staircased despite us making a point when it went through to make sure they had cancelled this on their side. They didn't.

notheragain41 · 25/11/2020 08:21

@However SO and HTB are now very much monetised models (as often are new build estate properties). The freeholds are bought by large investment vehicles"

Not every new build, and therefore HTB eligible, is leasehold, I've lived in 3 new builds (one with HTB) each were freehold and not one had a management company. HTB is very different to SO and doesn't make the house leasehold in itself. I appreciate your good intentions but you're generalising.

PinkSpring · 25/11/2020 08:30

Ok so some people have had issues but not everyone - surely if you know what you are getting yourself into - it's not a huge shock?!

We purchased our SO house six years ago, staircased a couple of years ago to full ownership, we now own the freehold and the house "normally" - made over £50k in equity already. Staircasing was easy.

I really don't see the issue here!

Newuser991 · 25/11/2020 08:33

Shared ownership never appealed. The amount of money spent on rent I'd rather put towards a mortgage.

RedToothBrush · 25/11/2020 09:37

@PinkSpring

Ok so some people have had issues but not everyone - surely if you know what you are getting yourself into - it's not a huge shock?!

We purchased our SO house six years ago, staircased a couple of years ago to full ownership, we now own the freehold and the house "normally" - made over £50k in equity already. Staircasing was easy.

I really don't see the issue here!

Honestly my experience was that most people didn't know what they were getting into on our estate.

We did. We did all our numbers and knew exactly what we were getting into. (DH has written mortgage calculator software).

We still had problems we didn't expect. The irony for us was that property declining slightly in value made it more difficult to buy, not less difficult even though our income doubled. We staircased at the bottom of the market. It didn't even wipe out our equity. We still had equity in the property. The lenders treated us differently on what they would lend us because it was a specialist issue. When we were looking around for a mortgage we had our current lender look at the numbers and say "This is insane. You are a perfect client. Under any other circumstances you'd be the first people we'd lend to, but because its a staircasing mortgage you don't meet our criteria to apply for a mortgage!!" They were shocked. We did find someone who would accept us, but it cost us more. And our solicitor was brilliant with it and picked up little issues at first purchase and at staircasing no one else on the estate was fully aware of.

Our circumstances of having an income that was increasing between 2008 and 2013 was unusual. The trend for the period was very much a stagnation in wages. Even considering staircasing for most would be utterly impossible.

Our experience was most definitely that shared ownership only really works when house prices are increasing. If they stagnant or decline you get fucked even if your finances are absolutely perfect.

In the end we were glad to be shot of the property completely last year when we moved. Even then there legacy convenants still lurking and we had the bizarre situation of having to get a letter to give us permission to sell a house we owned 100% of from the housing association. Which was a nightmare to get and cost us more money.

All the additional extra costs added up. It was stuff like limited mortgages being available to you, extra legal cost, housing association costs, not being in control of your rent nor service charges. The extra time all these things took to resolve. These were the things we were not aware of.

We went into purchasing a property in 2007 in the full knowledge there would be a housing crash the following year. We planned for that.

We were just about the most prepared and wide awake you get, way above the average level of knowledge /expectation and we still had masses of issues relating solely to the shared ownership part.

I do think shared ownership has its place even now, but i also think they are hugely missold and frankly i think they are wildly inappropriate as a scheme in many parts of the country. I only really think they are particularly worthwhile in places like the southeast where affordability is so difficult. They tend to inflate prices overall rather than keep them down.

I'd like to see much better regulation of the whole sector and schemes being standardised to one universal scheme where there is only one set of terms of conditions not a hundred million different schemes which you need a good solicitor to help pick your way through.

I would prefer them have certain legal protections built into that too such as housing association automatically has to buy you out after 12 months if your house has been on the market that long and they refuse to allow you to drop the sale price. (I have heard of people trying to sell for 4 years as the housing association won't budge).

Im not anti shared ownership by any means. But having been through the system and seeing all the problems and being aware of the problems neighbours had, i certainly do not think that there is any level of transparency in the sector and that anyone is really fully able to go into purchasing one fully informed. In our case we kept hitting the phrase "ooo we've never done one of these before/come across this problem before" from people who had jobs dealing with property and shared ownership.

We were definitely guinea pigs and i think that few really understood the problems that the additional barriers shared ownership creates. When we bought in 2007 shared ownership was still something of a novelty and it was a lot less common. I think a lot of issues in many estates (built after ours) are only just coming to the point where the issue becomes apparent as the schemes work for a time limited period. The schemes were designed on the assumption that people would live in them for a few years, and then sell up or staircase. That just doesn't reflect whats happened in the last ten years. Across the board in both shared ownership and none shared ownership there has been a problem with people unable to afford to move further up the housing ladder (there is now a lot of noise about issues with this and a lack of affordable homes on the second tier of the housing market).

Shared ownership is particularly problematic in how some rents and service charges are tied to inflation. It created a nightmare situation where it made the property uncompetitive to sell, which tanked your equity and lost the money you'd invested whilst you also didn't have the same freedom to move as a normal renter. Its just wrong when you end up with situations where people who couldn't afford a 100% mortgage on the same property are paying more in combined mortgage and rent after 5 years. The whole point is that it was supposed to be cheaper and for people who couldn't afford to buy outright.

As i say shared ownership was designed for property prices always increasing, more people staircasing or moving out more frequently to bigger properties and wages steadily increasing. 15 years down the line and with many more people affected its only now becoming apparent just how bad they are for some people because the schemes weren't thought through in terms of different economic conditions.

Ultimately it did work for us. But we've always felt that we were the exception to the rule after about 4 or 5 years and thats not right. They are deeply flawed though I still think in theory they are a good idea if schemes are set up properly and there are proper safeguards for buyers that are written into law. I do think people are being actively missold these things from what we were told and what others we know were told.

RedToothBrush · 25/11/2020 09:41

Basic problem with shared ownership is it doesn't work if your house loses value.

PinkSpring · 25/11/2020 09:57

@RedToothBrush - that is the issue though, many people are buying SO without knowing the potential risks and flaws with the scheme - and then complaining when it doesn't work out for them.

One of our neighbours didn't even know they had to pay for all repairs - they thought the HA would sort it still. One didn't realise rent would go up on a yearly basis (granted not by much, but they thought it was "fixed").

It's definitely something whereby if house prices decrease, it can get people "stuck" in the property - but isn't that the same for any homeowner? I have also seen people stuck because the prices have increased too much and they cannot afford to staircase as the property value has risen too much for them to afford to buy the rest of it.

I think it's also very dependant on area, around here SO resales sell within a couple of days as demand is huge.

I don't know what the SO scheme / criteria is like now - but we never really had any issues with it and it enabled us to buy a house. It was either SO or using Help to Buy but we didn't like the idea of the equity loan which was repayable after the 5 years with added interest - I know a few people who have gotten into trouble when that needed to be paid back.

chunkyrun · 25/11/2020 09:58

Will have to watch! I can understand people going for them. Saving to get onto the property ladder at the moment. There are lots of shared ownerships around with low deposit in nice areas

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