Has anyone managed to escape the capital? Any advice appreciated.

[ZK122]

Hello everyone!

As I write this in the living room, the smell of London's finest sewage is wafting down the hallway from the bathroom. We asked the housing association to sort the bathroom issues out nine months ago - no response.

I was born and raised in London, and after returning from teaching abroad a few years ago, have tried to make a go of living here. Career-wise, it could be better, but it could also be worse. I went from earning 14k(!) as a full time nursery teacher to a library manager earning 30k over the course of a year. My partner makes a little less than me - he does data management and course enrolment. He recently suffered from burnout due to stress in a previous (higher paid) role, but he's found his current one to be a lot more manageable.

For various reasons too complex to deal with here, we may be losing our housing association rent-controlled home, and will potentially have to look at flats further out. 1 beds in zones 4-6 cost an average of 1200-1400. After tax that gives me about 500 a month in savings if I'm extremely frugal and we split the rent 50/50. I looked into share to buy, but it seems absolutely ridiculous to pay rent on top of a mortgage - also, unless your wages increase, it doesn't seem feasible to do staircasing.

I have around 35k saved. That wouldn't get much here, I'm sure.

I started looking at places out of London to torture myself, and my god - the houses (yes houses!) in Sheffield, Norfolk, and other nice parts of the country that you can get for less than the price of studios/1 beds in London are gorgeous. I was shocked. I knew London was expensive, but I have been staggered by how massive the difference is with other parts of the country.

Lockdown has taught me how little I need London. I am a homebody by nature, and my interests (gaming, crochet, learning web design) can be done anywhere where there is internet. I'm not big on nightlife, I don't care for shopping, I LOVE peace and quiet. I love the outdoors. The idea of being close to the sea, or the Peak District, sounds amazing.

The only problem is my job is not remote. If it were, I'd already be gone. It's a vicious cycle - you stay for a job, the job barely gets you by in an overpriced city. I feel trapped in London. I'd love to become good enough at web design to get paid for it and find opportunities where remote working is possible, but I'm very much still a beginner.

Has anyone successfully escaped London and found a better quality of life elsewhere? How did you handle the job aspect? Any advice appreciated.

I will watch this thread with interest as we live up North and I to am shocked at the cost of housing down south.
Now correct me if I am wrong but I would have thought the extra you are earning is swallowed up in Rent / housing?

North Wales, Merseyside, Lancashire has some nice city's and cheap housing from 65k for a terraced to £100K for a family semi, obviously the more you pay the more you get.

Both yours and your DH’s roles don’t seem London centric in that you could find similar roles all over the uk. Lower salaries are fine because it’s a lower cost of living.

I would pick somewhere that’s close to a city or town and look at the job market. Start applying and see what interest you get back. It sounds more like it’s a state of mind that’s trapping you in London - you need to emotionally emancipate yourself!

In the balance case of London living vs elsewhere, I'd say you & your lifestyle sit firmly in the "better off elsewhere" category.
The key thing is you'r not tied into needing to commute with a golden handcuffs job/career. Outside work, sounds like you get absolutely nothing from living in London (I realised I was the same; lockdown has only reinforced that).

I'd definitely look to make the move.

I’ve gradually moved further out of London going from zone 2, to zone 5, then Hertfordshire (20min to London) and now far Essex (1hr to London).

My job can’t be done elsewhere so I commute. I’ve gone from tiny one beds or pokey rooms in flatshares to a lovely two bed Victorian house with garden in a quiet pretty village on a main train line. I joined a local sports group and I’ve made good local friends through that.

I’ve handled the job aspect by commuting, but it is tiring and it is expensive, so financially I’m about the same. But the difference in my personal life is phenomenal. If I could work locally I would, but to me the time and money for the commute is worth the trade off for the life I have outside of work. DP and I are very active outdoors types, and we have that right on our doorsteps now. It’s so nice. I feel very lucky.

If you can move areas geographically but still do a job in the same field, or can do something different, moving out of commuting distance could also work for you. Someone else may be able to advise on that!

It was such a good choice for me, and however you decide to make it work, OP, be it commuting or finding work near where you live, I hope you are very happy wherever you go!

We moved out of London a couple of years ago, house much nicer and half the price, lovely scenery, lovely school, friendly, no crime. All much prefer it. But it did mean I stopped working and we moved by DH's job. He loves having a 9 minute commute to work from over an hour. I earned a reasonable amount before so could afford to stop and its been useful with school off for covid and work on 2 houses so still been busy and just did a few freelance things. Freelancing was very tough to earn compared to before so would recommend applying for jobs and then move. Both your jobs seem very transferable though and not London centric like mine was.

With your salary levels I think you'll be far better off outside London, you'll probably lose a few thousand a year but have half the housing costs and less commuting. Norfolk and Suffolk are worth considering though can be a bit isolated. We went for somewhere with everything in walking distance like school, school clubs, doctors, shops etc and would recommend that especially with children as means they have friends they can walk to.

I didn’t move from London but I moved from Berkshire which is commuter belt. I’d loved there for 8 years & started my ‘career’ there - career being an office job assessing medical claims. Paid the bills & very social so I enjoyed it in my early 20’s! But eventually, I reached the point of wanting to buy & I couldn’t comprehend the difference in house prices between Reading & my home back in Yorkshire. So we decided to move back. We both managed to get temporary jobs in a call centre that would see us through renting for a while & being in the right location to properly job search. That in itself was quite stressful as we travelled up to Leeds & back a couple times in a day 🙈

It all worked well in the end. I got a permanent job quite quickly & I’m still with the company now 6 years later. I got my OH a job with the company as well when one came up. We bought a large 3 bed house for £184,000. Wouldn’t have got us a two bed flat in Berkshire.

That said, with children now, I’d never not live near family. Doesn’t have to be next door but close enough to help with childcare on a weekend now & again! So def something to consider I think!

It depends on the role whether it all gets swallowed up in housing in London, some roles like teaching the pay difference is so little you are much better off out of London but other jobs like in finance can be triple the salary in London. You also get the money back on the London house well you sell normally.

OP before you start thinking about anything else, check the telecoms for any place where you might like to live. Communications are vital for working from home. Vast areas of the UK stil have a very, very poor broadband service. And an alarming number of places still have no mobile phone reception or (non-satellite) broadband at al.

@florascotia2
What a good often missed point we have 200Meg + A local estate 1/2 a mile away has 4 on a good day!

Cardiff! City opportunities but close to beaches and the black mountains. Good links to London

Yep! Moved back from overseas and realised we didn’t want the London lifestyle anymore so moved to Folkestone. Not a single regret. We have a fantastic outdoorsy lifestyle, a bigger house, more space and are generally far more relaxed and happier than we ever were living in a big city. And it’s still there to visit friends and family less than an hour on the train on the rare occasion we feel like a trip down memory lane...

I’m from the absolute arse end of nowhere originally and ended up in London for four years, by the end the gloss had totally worn off and i just wanted out.
Moved to Manchester which is a big city, with a lot of big employers up here. However it’s got such a different attitude to london. I absolutely love it and while I’m a bit of a nomad, think this will always be my base.

Ha, I've stayed in two hotels where I couldn't get a signal for life nor money in London. Yet my BIL yells into his phone every time he visits because "they don't get the same signal up here" Feel sorry for the poor sod on the other end of the phone.

Go for it OP.

Hey @Funf, at the moment I'm able to save a fair amount because of the rent control situation. Of course, that will change if I have to move to somewhere else in London soon.

And yes, such shocking prices!

@FurierTransform Yes - I think lockdown made a lot of people realise what their values were! Definitely keen to see what life outside of London is like. It was great for growing up/twenties but really not much good to me now.

@AmandaHugenkiss Thank you for sharing your story! So glad you're happier now. Commuting/travel is a nightmare, but it really sounds like the trade-off is fantastic.

@SilkieRabbits Thank you, this is great! Yes, it definitely sounds like looking at what jobs are out there is the way to go. Losing the London-rates would be fine if the living expenses are proportionate.

@MoirasRoses 184,000! You can't even get a studio here with that! So glad the job aspect worked itself out for you as well. It's very heartening to read about others' success!

Moved to Manchester which is a big city, with a lot of big employers up here. However it’s got such a different attitude to london.

Could you elaborate, a bit, lastqueen? I always thought Mannchester was quite intimidating (ex-Londoner now in Midlands), is this totally wrong?

Some places are, to a point, hotspots for web design (I used to work in the marketing industry) with a lot of design companies, agencies and consultancies clustered together, so you might consider tilting yourself at some of these places, if you're thinking about work in the future.

I'd be looking at or near to (in no particular order): Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Glasgow, Leeds, Manchester, Bristol. Perhaps Cardiff although I don't know the design scene there especially. Newcastle, Glasgow and Manchester in particular have a lot of creative, tech and web design companies and some really innovative people working. It's also easier to be rural-ish around these cities (compared to London) if you don't want to be in the city itself. There are people who commute into Manchester, for example, from parts of the Peak District or North Wales.

I always think it's worth positioning yourself for maximum flexibility when it comes to the job market. Most web designers who earn a living working from home have experience behind them. (Taking myself as a somewhat related example -- I was a copywriter for over a decade in agencies; I now work for myself and from home, but I am only able to do that because I built up contacts and experience in agencies, and a reputation.) The bulk of creative jobs will not stay WFH long-term. People need to collaborate in person to work creatively. Also, web design tends towards younger people, who (usually) want to be social and together anyway.

This sounds a bit like I'm pissing on your chips and I'm really not -- there are absolutely tons of opportunities in areas of the UK that aren't London and the south east. Go for it, I'd say. But do it with an eye on future potential work opportunities.

We moved from London zone 2 to a Leicestershire village. We found good jobs locally, were able to afford a big house in a peaceful, pretty, prosperous village, DS went to the village school, lovely countryside on the doorstep — it was awful. Insular, xenophobic, dull. We gave it every possible chance for nine years, volunteered, got involved in baby groups, Scouts, school and village stuff, and it just didn’t work for us at all.

I think moving from Zone 2 to a Leicestershire village is always going to be a bit of a culture shock. Did you not consider somewhere a bit more urban? Rural Leicestershire isn't exactly know for it's progressive nature!

I'd seriously consider Sheffield OP, great city, 1/3 of it lies in the Peaks, multicultural, fantastic arts and music scene, loads of independents, beautiful parks, reasonably priced housing, friendly. Plenty of junior dev jobs there as it's got an expanding digital sector.

Do it!

Rural areas are all very different. Partly descends on the type of people who migrate to an area.

Do it!

I’d look for a job first, for one of you. Then rent in the area until you get a feel for it. With your savings and one income you should be fine in the short term.

Might be worth checking out unemployment rates in different areas to get a feel for the job market competition.

You might find lining up the job tricky, if you get to the point of a job offer the employer would need to feel very confident you are ready to relocate to offer it to you. I used to recruit new staff and anyone applying who needed to relocate to take the job was always more likely to drop out as a candidate as thus more risky to invest time and effort in. Having kids makes it more complicated because relocating also means finding schools etc.
But you won't be able to move without the job, catch 22.
I'm sure you could do it with lots of determination and some good luck though.Do you have links with other libraries you could put feelers out with?