Victorian terrace side return: one entrance or two? With plans!

[TheStoryofmyLife]

Planning a kitchen side return extension on our fairly narrow Victorian terrace. I consider myself pretty confident with interiors but have a dilemma on whether or not to close off the existing entrance to the room in favour of a new one through to the rear living room.

I have a really good peninsular kitchen layout design that accommodates boring things like the hot water tank/boiler and the soil pipe (which will need to be boxed in inside the new room), and also gives us somewhere to store the hoover/ironing board etc (we will be losing most of our under-stairs cupboard to a new loo). BUT my architect says we will get fed up with going through the living room to get to the kitchen.

My plan would be to widen the entrance to the back living room, close off the one to the front section, and have a utility cupboard where the current hallway door to the kitchen is. I'm not as keen on alternative layouts that keep two entrances for a number of reasons, including loss of storage.

I have friends in (admittedly larger) Victorian terraces who have done similar and it works really well.

Opinions? Have you done the same and if so do you regret losing the original entrance?

I am not looking to remodel the rest of the living area or to open it up completely, but one of our major reasons for doing the extension is to give a direct link between the kitchen and living area, with a pocket door so we can still close it off when required (DC are 9 & 12).

It's not completely clear from the plans but there's a change of level between the front and rear of the house, 2 steps down. New room dimensions will be 4.3 x 5.6m approx.

Sorry should have added, in case it's not obvious - that "proposed" plan is my architect's version not mine!

If you do that, the new doorway would open into the kitchen cupboards on the proposed plan I think?

You'd be opening the door into the kitchen units / sink?

I think I would get fed up with going through the living room to get to the kitchen.

Personally, I’d probably convert the dark middle room into utility, boot and coat room etc Then I’d have a smart sitting room at the front. In the kitchen, you’d gain space for a sofa making it more of a family room. Especially nice with the laundry away.

So there would be a direct line of sight from the front to the rear of the house?

I think that if the middle room is narrow then this risks becoming a corridor space rather than a useful space.

Personally I think it is nice to have at least one separate room, as I don’t want to see and hear my kids all of the time. If you wanted to Open up the middle Room to the new extension, then I would want to reinstate the wall between the middle room And the front room, or at least have doors between the rooms, like i. This property www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/56246264?search_identifier=d5dc100aac85eacc1e3d955984dd85e3

Thanks all! "My" layout would range the kitchen to the other side - ie the units would run down the wall adjacent to the WC.

I'm less concerned about suggestions for the layout - am bursting with those - as to opinions on how important it is to retain two entrances. Personally I feel two is unnecessary and I'd rather use the space for storage/utility.

As I said not keen on using that rear living room as a boot room - we will need a WFH area in there as both DH and I will be doing a lot more of that long term.

@Whatthebloodyell That's a gorgeous house - pretty sure I remember it from The Modern House - and if it weren't for the change of level in my place I'd consider that layout. I know exactly how I want to use the rear living room though so that's not a concern.

There wouldn't be a direct line of sight from the front door, no, which is more or less my only reservation about blocking off the entrance from the hallway.

D'oh they have got a change of level in that place! Doesn't really change my feelings though, I don't want to open up the back living room that much.

"My plan would be to widen the entrance to the back living room, close off the one to the front section, and have a utility cupboard where the current hallway door to the kitchen is. I'm not as keen on alternative layouts that keep two entrances for a number of reasons, including loss of storage."

Which entrance to the front room would you close off? Would the middle room have any source of light?

I agree with your architect that going through the back reception all the time will be annoying and that room will end up feeling like a corridor/dumping ground. So much nicer to walk straight into the kitchen from the hallway and gives you more options for the second reception as you don’t have to maintain a clear path through in the same way.

I think it only works going through the back reception if you have knocked through from that room to the kitchen so it’s effectively all one room.

I have a friend with your architect’s proposed layout and it works well. The downside is they don’t use the reception rooms much in the daytime, perhaps because there is no direct connection I don’t know. But their DC are much younger than yours (toddler through to 7) - I think yours are much more likely to use the separate space as they are older.

I wouldn’t carve up the back room entirely as a pp suggested, but I would strongly consider carving a slice off it to make a laundry cupboard (stacked wm and dryer) and coat cupboard, off the hallway. The remainder of the room would be pretty slim but still enough for a wfh/homework area. Getting the laundry noise out of the kitchen and coat clutter out of the hall is such a plus.

I'd close off the entrance to the corridor by the new WC - there would be a glass pitched roof to the new extension and a small roof light directly above the new entrance to the living room so that's taken care of.

Hastily-drawn Rough approximation of my preferred layout attached!

@minipie that's a good suggestion, and one of my architect's original proposals in fact. I love the idea of a separate utility/coat cupboard but we've lived in this house 9 years and it drives me nuts that the front and back of the ground floor are do separate. When we have people over (obviously not right now, but one day...) it feels forced to move into the living room from the kitchen so we rarely do that. When the kids are in the front room I have no idea what they're doing in their screens and they affect not to hear when we call them etc. A direct connection between the living room and kitchen is non-negotiable.

If you want the middle room for WFH, won’t there be too many people going through/ too distracting if that’s your only way to get into the kitchen?

No personal experience as I only have a toddler, but parents of teens always seem to prefer separate spaces. Your children haven’t got long till they hit that stage.

@JoJoSM2 I take your point, but kids are at school for all but an hour or so of the working day (or will be when DD2 starts secondary in about 18 months). At the moment one of us is always in the kitchen which is not sustainable long-term.

I prefer your architect's design. I think you could close off the front rooms totally and not have an entrance from there to the back. Then you would only have one entrance. I think you should ask your architect to build in a utility / boot room area somewhere off the kitchen. My friend uses a wall of floor to ceiling cupboards in her kitchen as a boot room storage/ utility area - you could do that on the wall opposite your kitchen units.

@Annasgirl there's very limited room in the kitchen unfortunately (only 4.3m wide when extended). And as I said, the direct link between the kitchen and living room is a major reason to do the extension in the first place.

Our priorities for the kitchen are:
Link front & back of ground floor
As big a kitchen table as possible
Good cooking space (we cook a lot)

Need to accommodate:
Boiler/hot water tank
WC
Broom cupboard
WFH area

Would be nice to have:
Utility space
Coat cupboard

My preferred layout gives us pretty much everything we want, at the expense of losing the hall entrance. In my view it's a compromise worth making, but I'm interested in the views of people who have done something similar, if possible.

WHat about making the front room (or part of it) into the wfh/office then use the rest of it plus the back room as your lounge with 2 steps down into the kitchen?

We've ended up with a slightly different layout after our side extension. I think we have everything on your list - we also cook a lot and have kids of similar ages.

The main difference is that we decided to sacrifice the middle reception room, which usually ends up being a dark corridor anyway. Instead we used that space for a utility / pantry, shower room and boot room (large coat cupboard for coats, wellies, golf clubs etc). We also kept the storage cupboards under the stairs rather than converting to a downstairs loo. One sec, I'll try to post plans.

I'd rather keep the front room as it is - it's wider than the middle room and the nicest room in the house really.

We also had the living room redecorated a couple of years ago and lovely shelving built in for our (many) books so don't want to rework that area in a big way.

Ooh @NamedyChangedy would be interested to see that, thanks!

When we have people over (obviously not right now, but one day...) it feels forced to move into the living room from the kitchen so we rarely do that. When the kids are in the front room I have no idea what they're doing in their screens and they affect not to hear when we call them etc. A direct connection between the living room and kitchen is non-negotiable.

We have a very direct connection, and still both these things happen! Guests lingering in the kitchen rather than moving to the living room is a universal thing I think, I have seen it happen in every kind of house layout. We have a big comfy sitting area actually in our kitchen (we opened up the back reception to the kitchen) and still people don’t move there, let alone to our separate sitting room, they just stay at the table! Kids glued to their screens don’t respond even if in the same room...

I think the key to making sure the front of the house gets used is to allocate particular purposes to it, rather than opening up and hoping that makes you use it more. You already have an allocated purpose for your rear room. The front room is trickier but for example if your only TV is in the front room then it will definitely be used. We have two tvs, but we send the kids to the front room to watch tv when we want peace in the kitchen. We also use it more when it’s winter as it has a working fire. It’s our “Christmas room”.

I have to say I would pick your architect’s plan every time (but with the addition of a coat and laundry cupboard off the hall carved from the rear reception) but it’s your house!

@minipie You're right about guests/kids of course, but I still want that flow between rooms!

We have an open fire in the front living room as well which I love, and yes the "big" TV (there's a small one in current kitchen). We use that room most evenings and as a family, and the kids decamp there after school whenever they can!

This is all really interesting food for thought, thanks all.

Hopefully that shows up? The proportions might be off, but we've essentially ended up with two living spaces - one in the very front of the house, that can be closed off for when DS1 and his friends are having a Fortnite fest or whatever they do. And we can be at the garden end (watching something super-cultured, of course!) and not hear them. It works really well.

OP what about something like this?
There are various kitchen layouts possible I think so this is just one example.

If you want to keep a connection and flow from the kitchen to the receptions then I would definitely do two kitchen entrances not one. That kitchen door from the hallway is crucial IMO.