Fire doors with self closing mechanisms

[mrpoopeybutthole]

I'm moving into a house with a 3rd storey loft conversion. It has fire doors with self closing mechanisms off stairwell on each floor.
Are self closing mechanisms required or does anyone know if I can get fire doors fitted without the self closing mechanisms throughout?

Thank you.

Anyone?

I have a three storey and there has to be fire doors throughout. They all self close. This was purpose built though.

Not sure on houses where the loft is an addition though. Is there a reason why you don’t want self closing ones?

I find the self closing ones a pain when I'm trying to get through carrying stuff, children etc

I understand that self-closers are no longer required on 3-storey dwelling houses, but the rules change from time to time and I am not an authority.

you do not necessarily have to buy new doors when you remove or disable the closers.

We bought a three story house a couple of years ago and it has fire doors in the top two stories but they aren't self closing.

The house before that which was build about 15 years ago had self closing ones but we took the chains out.

There is a problem with self closers if they are wrongly set, which, usually, they are. 20 newton (gram) opening strength is the theoretical maximum, but if it means a disabled person or other user of the building would be trapped in a fire, there isn't any need to have any particular number (weight of pull spring). There are two parts of the closer, the initial/final and the main sweep. There are also two parts of the control, the speed and the force.

In every case, doors and closers are installed by whichever bloke has the screwdriver, and he rarely " has the body of a weak and feeble woman" (to quote Elizabeth 1) ! He will push vaguely at the door, confirm to himself that he can open it, and go. Nobody checks, not on snagging of newbuild, not on box ticking of building regs. people (usually blokes).
The theory behind them is fine. If people simply run out of a building leaving the door open, the fire spreads faster upstairs. My question might be, how often does that happen, including when people know there are other people upstairs ? And how much back, wrist, arm, finger and leg injury and general human misery is caused, thousands of times an hour, by the burden carrier hating, woman hating, cripple hating, child hating, old people hating closers?

It may possibly vary with different planning authorities.
We carried out a loft conversion 20 years ago and any doors opening on to a landing/stairs or hallway (except the bathroom) had to be self closing. Fast forward to 5 years ago when we built our extension and the rules had changed so we no longer need self closers.

A friend who loves in a three storey townhouse had all the self closers on her doors removed after her daughter's finger was severed. Luckily the surgeons were able to reattach it successfully, but the surgeon told her that he treats around 3 children a month for severed fingers due to these awful doors. That's thirty six children a year with severed fingers in one hospital, nationally the number must be ridiculously high.

As others have said, you can change the closer so it’s not a self closer.
@PigletJohn I’ve read that you only need them in certain doors, eg the kitchen door and done on individual layouts.

We finished a loft conversion 2 months ago. Fire doors on all habitable rooms but they are not the self closing type. Signed off by building control

I have these FD30 doors with those awful chains pulling them closed. Except I have these stopping them slamming & trapping my children's fingers, which defeats the point if the fire doors. If I can remove them mechanism, I can remove the stoppers.

Trying to find some information online that it's no longer regulation to have them on a three storey house, and that it won't cause any issues when selling in the future. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

@NachoNachoMan if it meet building regs when built, surely that’s all that matters?

@BitOutOfPractice posted a link a while back.

Don't know if it's still up to date.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/a2894337-Fire-door-in-domestic-property?msgid=68110538#68110538

Thanks for the tag @PigletJohn I haven’t been on mn for a few years.

Goodness such a lot of misconceptions about fire doors !

@NachoNachoMan The requirement to have fire doors on three storey houses changed in 2006 from memory. They are no longer required. Apart from the door between the house and an integral garage (if there is one)

Note that this applies only to houses. The regulations are different in flats / houses converted into flats where fire doors are required on entrance doors off communal areas.

@Blue5238 a door is not, by definition, a fire door if it doesn’t have a self closing device fitted. But since fire doors aren’t required in your case, that’s a moot point.

@Lavendersquare those doors were clearly badly adjusted with no back check. It’s a horrible thing to happen.

But fire doors are generally there for a reason too.

@mrpoopeybutthole you can just disable the closers since fire doors aren’t a requirement in your case.

Wouldn’t it be reassuring if builders and BCOs actually kept up with fire safety regs that changed 14 years ago?

@BitOutOfPractice wouldn’t you need changes to be signed of by the council?

Sorry @Mumsnorthernmonkey what changes?

@Blue5238 a door is not, by definition, a fire door if it doesn’t have a self closing device fitted. But since fire doors aren’t required in your case, that’s a moot point.

Now I'm really confused. The link you posted on the other thread says FD30 fire doors have to be installed on the 3rd floor and around the staircase on properties which are newly built or renovated. Which is in line with what building control told us, which is what we did.

Thank you for all the replies. I know nothing about fire doors so I'm glad I am able to remove the self closing mechanism without having to replace the door!

We renovated a 3 storey house last year. All signed off by building control.

We do have fire doors everywhere but no self closers. They are just thicker, solid doors. As I recall, we were not even required to have fire doors except to the kitchen (we chose to have them throughout as we wanted the heavy solid feel).

Based on that, self closers do not appear to be required.