Victorian terrace - structural wall missing!!!

[Yamsin]

We have just had survey back and found the reason for sagging floors upstairs is due to the only supporting wall between living and dining room being removed donkeys back. Only a probable timber support. So all floors need replacing therefore all walls. Should we walk away??? Gahhhhh

Be prepared to live with props for a while.

Also upstairs joists will be warped and will need to be replaced, I'd be amazed if it was £20k

Desperate/mad is a better description...i can't face moving back in with my parents!!!!

@allraddledoldmisanthropist apparently its common in old victorian properties, its managed for the last few decades I suppose as it was clearly done a heck of a long time ago...though we would make it the first thing to fix as its the most worrying and most invasive bit of work. Interestingly builder said if we were to go for a mansard extension chances are we would have to redo all the floors on the first floor anyway to strengthen them.

One more thing ( which I am sure you have thought of so sorry if grandmother eggs etc ) if the house is much better at the price than other comparable properties - they may come back with " we've already taken the cost of that work into account with the current price " so I would also see what comparable properties go for & ask to see quotes which demonstrate that this has actually been taken into account

Sorry sorry sorry - I know you will have thought of this.

I wish you well @Yamsin I do sometimes think ( probably much less so since I bought my first house ( many years ago ) you can sometimes get a good deal ( in the sense that end up with a house better than you could normally afford if you are prepared to put up with some inconvenience - not to say stress along the way )

Anyway I do wish you well & all luck .

I'm all for a project too but wouldn't touch a terraced house like this with a barge pole. Imagine the party wall agreements you need to put in place with your neighbours, not to mention the insurance which I'm sure has never declared the issue so is invalid.
It is possible that on top of internal floors and walls, you will also need to do the roof supports if these have been under pressure.
I'd be inclined to go for it as a detached house as at least the risk is your own.

Cautionary tale:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3631346/Gone-30-minutes-Terraced-house-COLLAPSES-just-half-hour-building-work-six-months-bought-doer-upper-700-000.html

I'd look at it as an opportunity maybe? A lot of people would just walk away so the sale potential of the house is less, so maybe they will be more amenable to negotiating with you.

It will all come down to costs. You must work out how much the house is worth after the structual work and how much the work will cost, then get the price reduced by at least this amount and I'd say more, as you're taking on the risk of the price increasing during the job and you will have to suffer all the upheaval.

Frankly if the figures add up, you can stand the carnage and this is the house for you then I'd go for it.

its managed for the last few decades I suppose as it was clearly done a heck of a long time ago

I get that, but I'm amazed the survey doesn't say it needs doing asap just to cover themselves. The risk on any one day is doubtless very, very low but I think I'd rather jack it than take that risk.

Thanks for all the wonderful practical suggestions, really grateful you guys are letting me use you as a sounding board :)

@allleafeater yes :( out of curiosity, what kind of price range do you think is more reasonable? We are awaiting a detailed quote but expecting £40k ish

@BasiliskStare no offence at all, thank you for your comments! Yes I think thats what the seller will say, but I guess if we don't try we won't know is my husbands view.

Basically this could be THE house for the next 20 years so if we don't do everything we can to try and make it work we would potentially be quite annoyed with ourselves later on

Be aware that once the refurb works begin it is guaranteed that more things will come out and bite you.

Don’t be conservative with your budget, be realistic and then add 20%.

Good luck.

@raddledoldmisanthropist ah I see what you're saying. To be fair, surveyor put it as a top risk in his written report, but he told us a bunch of stuff over the phone which is how he is managing his risk I suppose.

If it was a detached house, you had no mortgage & were able to negotiate a much lower price to take into account all the structural work then I would proceed.
However!
It's a terrace - party walls, etc. Too much could go wrong & could possibly affect the neighbouring properties.
For me it is a risk I wouldn't take - it's one thing something going wrong with the building work on my property, it's another thing something going wrong that affects my neighbours!

You would be mad to proceed.

This is what surveys are for, not £500 for new door knobs or a couple thou for a new boiler - it's this sort of unexpected structural issues which could render a house uninsurable, uninhabitable and financially ruin you.

I doubt you would get a mortgage, unless you lie about the structural issue and potential uninsurability.

Would you have taken more than 2 seconds to swipe left on this if it was in the advert? There's a reason, don't fall for sunk costs fallacy, be objective and walk swiftly away from this.

I would also profusely thank the surveyor, that report has paid for itself.

It sounds like the wall has been removed years ago and timber used to support it. It could have been like that for 40 years or more, but until you remove part of the ceiling or take some floorboards up it would be hard to estimate the job/cost .
It does not mean you need to replace the upstairs floors , maybe possible to Jack the floor up enough on acros , then do the steel work underneath. But impossible to know when it’s all hidden .

Unless the surveyor has taken floors up to see what's going on then he's just guessing at what's going on. Probably an educated decent guess, but still not known exactly. It could be that the wall wasn't a structural wall, and the joists are undersized or rotten. Either way, lots of work to fix.

@Chumleymouse @whatsthecomingoverthehill yh precisely, so looking for quotes on worst case scenario and will see where we go from there

@PicsInRed funnily enough in our current 1939s house we found similarly bodged up structural beams when we went to fix a previous owners dodgey diy plumbing situation. Couldn't have been seen by our buyers survey. But it did make us wonder if we would have bought the house if we knew that on purchase. Turned out we just got our structural engineer to draw up a spec beam and builder put it in when he knocked down a dividing wall for the kitchen. A weeks extra work and an extra £1k, as well as sudden stress

It may not necessarily be the massive job others have suggested: could be an RSJ or similar required and then redoing joists and floors and ceilings. I'd get a builder in to quote for the work and get that knocked off the price. Now that the EA and the owner know that the house is actually dangerous I don't think they can expect to conceal the information from any other potential purchasers.

If you were planning to virtually gut the place anyway then it may be something you're prepared to take on — although I don't suppose you'll be able to live there while the work is going on.

If the location is fantastic and you can afford it, I would. Location is so important and once the work's done you'll know that it's been done properly. Good luck.

You need a structural engineer to cost the job with a builder, and a structural report.

Pretty much everything can be fixed if the location and love for the property is there.

If it’s a long term home for you and you have the budget, you’ll find a way of resolving it.

@Shedbuilder @faqs thanks both, after my initial panic we have become more pragmatic and realised we shiujd be able to afford works as its our long term home, and will have to deal with hassle of moving out for a few months. Obviously will ask for money off and hope for the best.

Go for it. You love it and the location, and although it is likely to be expensive, it is doable.

This sounds a big job. You need a significant amount of money off. Your mortgage could also be effected by this. I think I would walk away