14 day isolation - two days from completion!

[stickygotstuck]

We are supposed to be enchanging and completing on Friday.

This morning my solicitor forwards an email from the vendor's solicitor to say that they've just got back from holiday and need to isolate for 14 days .

They want to know are we happy to postpone two weeks? What do they think?

Our issues:
Furious with vendor. WTF were they thinking of going on holiday now? (And yes, there is the slimmest of slim chances that wherever they went has been put on the list after they left. Not sure there is anywhere currently not in 'that' list though).

Furious with both solicitors. It seems from the email that they both know they were on holiday.

We have booked removals van and tradespeople, so have our buyers have as well. All is in place, we are in a chain, vendor is not. One of us has taken time off that cannot be rebooked, the other has rejected self-employed contracts to be able to concentrate on decorating, moving stuff, etc. as of Friday.

We wrote to our solicitor to say it was not acceptable for all above reaons. We also asked why can't we proceed as we understand the house we are buying is now empty and no contact in person is necessary.

(Surely the vendor hasn't gone back to the house from holiday two days before having to vacate it, have they??)

Helpfully, radio silence from our useless solicitor since this morning.

What can we do? Has anybody moved recently and done all the legal stuff remotely? Did you have to physically see anyone on the day?

Anybody?

Is there a Covid clause in your contract?

Thanks MahMahMahMah.

Not as far as I know.

We're trying to salvage this, and I just can't see why the vendor should be physically present anywhere on the day. Everything was signed, witnessed and posted back weeks ago. Why would they need to be present?

I’m no expert but if house empty I don’t see issue: estate agent can give you keys on completion day

I bought an ex-rental and the agent gave me the keys night before if I remember correctly! It’s a shame you are exchanging and completing on same day .. push for agent to handle. You can mask up/open windows/wipe door handles so I don’t see huge health risk for you ...

Is the issue that vendor needs to go to bank for funds transfer and now cannot.?

Thank you, Despairing

Is the issue that vendor needs to go to bank for funds transfer and now cannot?

This didn't occur to me, but I'd guess they have access to online banking and could at the very least check the balance. Plus I assume their solicitor will confirm the transfer.

Our solicitor has received the money from the mortgage company. We now have a comparatively small amount in cash to transfer (by the end of tomorrow!) but we don't dare in case things still fall through. Which would be madness at this stage, wouldn't it?

No advice but I'd be raging too!

I just received an unwelcome update.

A friend who lives nearby just told me that they have seen the vendor's car parked outside the house.

This means that they had planned all along to come back to the house after the holidays, doesn't it? Clutching at straws, maybe it's a relative who's borrowed the car to fecth a few final things?

Not looking good, is it?

Thanks for the sympathy, boredboredboredboredbored!

I managed to do a chaps payment through online banking for the house payment (in full lockdown) so that’s a rubbish excuse if they try it.

You haven’t exchanged so legally you’re in a weak position and are at the mercy of the sellers here. That’s the massive downside with exchange and complete in the same day.

Hopefully the solicitor and estate agents can apply pressure for you? Morally, these people are shit bags. Do you have people moving into your home?

Thank you Lola.

The idea behind simultaneous exchange and completion was that this is taking so long that we need to get a move on.

And yes, we have people moving into our home.

I couldn't agree more with you on the moral fibre of the vendor! I just can't get past it. I find it hard generally to just accept injustice or premeditated bad behaviour (and yes, I know it happens but it sends me into a spin!). The whole system mystifies me. I am appalled that gazumping is a thing, for instance. Why is that not illegal?

The solicitors are being useless but I have spoken to them today and outlined why we cannot agree to postponing. They'll 'let me know'. I just hope we can sleep tonight!

Hi OP - given that this is a problem starting and ending with your vendor, I can understand your rage!

We bought last year pre-Covid and there was no contact with the vendor - it was all handled by the EA. Nor did we have to be anywhere in person to deal with funds, they were all drawn down electronically.

So even if the vendor has gone back to their home, as far as I can see you'd likely be fine as long as they vacate early (like pre-10am) so that you can air out the house and deep clean - either yourselves or with professional help - before unpacking?

It's not as though they've tested positive, right? They're just isolating as a precaution because of their travel. So as long as they go straight to another address to continue isolating I can't see what the issue is really.

For context, we rent out a small London flat to tourists and for medium term lets. Since Covid, the cleaning firm who do the change-overs for us have instigated a deep-clean protocol, including cleaners in PPE, all windows opened for ventilation, and all surfaces deep-cleaned. As far as I'm aware we're following all the relevant guidance and no one is at risk, even if one guest checks out at 11am and the next guest arrives at 2pm...

So given the disruption to your lives (and everyone else in the chain) that will be caused by postponing, I don't really see why you should.

Best of luck!

Corrr I’d be absolutely raging. It’s one thing if they’d unfortunately caught covid, nothing anyone could do. But going on holiday knowing they’d have to isolate is really shitty. Do they not live in the property then? If not, then to be honest, can you not just say you are willing to take the risk? Surface transmission is very low risk anyway. I’d personally be taking it.

And if they don’t live there at this point, they shouldn’t have been out of the property they do live in & have broken the law.

It's a complete pain that you haven't yet exchanged. I think to salvage your sale, you may need to exchange on Friday, move out and into a hotel with your stuff into storage for 12 days at the cost of your vendor, and then move in to your house purchase. If your vendor doesn't agree to taking on this cost (£3-5k réduction in sale price), I guess all bets are off.

Thank you WoollyMammoth.

I think that's the issue, we are not sure whether it's 'legal' for them to now move to their other house from this one.

As far as the risk to ourselves goes, we are not too worried. As you say, the risk from surfaces is low and they are not infected as far as anyone knows. Plus, we'd of course disinfect like mad as soon as we are in.

Thank you, HolA13. That's what I don't understand. The vendor did not live there anymore, but I know his grown up children have stayed the odd day, as they were in the process of moving out themselves. But they definitely have another house to go to becasuse that's where the vendor was living when we viewed it, his daughter showed us round.

Thanks, MahMahMahMah, I think that's the key. If they don't want to exchange on Friday (tomorrow!!) we should walk away and break the chain, because I can't think of a good reason why they wouldn't want to exchange at the very least. I feel sick at the prospect of having to stay in a hotel and move our stuff. We are talking about tomorrow here.

I know it's mad, especially when raging, but I am tempted to go and speak to them in person, ask them exactly what is going on!

Here's an update.

I asked in my OP -

Surely the vendor hasn't gone back to the house from holiday two days before having to vacate it, have they??

Well, gues what - they have and they are isolating in the house!

I have no words. But plenty of expletives!!

Now, even so, does that really really mean that according to the guidelines they can't get into the car and sod off to the house where they actually live, and isolate there?

What the hell.. what are they playing at? Are they trying to delay you here? Why are they isolating in a property they no longer live in? That’s very weird. Is there furniture in this property or not? I’d say, if the property is empty and they do not have to involve anyone in their move (removals etc), then by law it’s fine for them to simply move themselves to where they do actually live. So long as it’s maybe not miles away & theres a risk of a car breakdown etc .. but if they are relying on movers tomorrow, you are screwed..

There’s something a bit weird going on here.. something doesn’t add up. I’d get to the bottom of why they’ve decided to isolate in a property they don’t live in & a day before they are due complete.

Thanks @HolA13

I am begninnig to think we're being gazumped and noboday has the balls to tell us. Is that a possibility? We are walking if so.

We asked our solicitor this morning to tell the vendor that we want to at least exchange tomorrow to guarantee it won't fall through. 3pm and still no news.

Just called the EA's mobile. Went straight to voicemail and got a text after some rings saying "sorry, I can't talk right now". Assumining this is automated, but I still have the feeling we are being played.

(As an aside, I still don't understand how anbody manages to move house in this country. Or why half of the practices that seem common are even legal)

They are trying to delay here. And unfortunately as you have not exchanged (and I would never exchange and complete on the same day unless i didn't need to be out of my current place any time soon and my solicitor strongly advised against it) you can either accept it and delay through your chain or try to force it through and risk them just saying no. Really not much risk for them though short of them having to restart the search for a new buyer so trying to force them now is going to be difficult.

Sorry this is a really difficult situation for you with limited options.

Thanks Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone.

Frankly, believe it or not, I don't even understand what exchanging and completing means. Or I do, but I cannot understand how they are two separate things. We are not the serial house moving type, as you can probably tell, and this is stressing us out of our minds.

But anyway, we suggested simultaneous exchange and completion to our solicitor, who agreed it was a spiffing idea after all this waiting (months now because of covid). That's what we pay him for, isn't it? We didn't insist, we just asked was it possible. That's another one who is not covering himself in glory.

I cannot for the life of me understand why they are delaying though. They've had absolute ages. If they don't want to sell, tell us FFS.

Because their reasons for isolating in this house are simply non existant, I am wondering whether we can trust that things will go ahead in two weeks. I'd rather walk now than in 2 weeks' time.

@stickygotstuck Yep your solicitor doesn't walk away from this well either. House buying is stressful i have done it once buying only no chain up either and that was bad enough.

If they’ve got older children, maybe they’re isolating in the old house so their kids don’t have to isolate too( assuming they live together and the dc weren’t on holiday). Could you drop the price To cover a nice hotel for 2 weeks?

Thanks Swiftnicola.

No, I understand the children are grown up and have flown the nest, and the vendor moved in with his partner (who presumably he's gone on holiday with) when he put the house in the market.
The adult daughter lives locally so she was the one showing us the house.

Difficult to drop the price because our solicitor is not getting back to us, who knows if he is getting in touch with them!

At least we have managed to get through to the estate agent, who had no idea this was going on until half an hour ago. I'm assuming he doesn't get his fee until at least exchange, so hoping that will put a rocket up his ass!

It's the most peculiar thing. We are still supposed to be exchanging & completing tomorrow and there is no communication from anybody, not even 'our' side!

@stickygotstuck - exchange is the exchange of contracts - ie the day everyone signs their house sale / purchase over to the buyer / vendor and puts a concrete date in the diary to give X funds to the vendor in order to purchase the house - the day the funds go to the vendors account is the day of completion. Once contracts are exchanged nobody can pull out.

How on Earth are your buyers feeling?! How long is the chain?

Thanks @MahMahMahMahCorona
I know that on a theoritical level, but still can't see why they don't happen at the same time. Still, that' just me, who would scrap the system altogether!

Sorry, my mistake, the people moving to our house are not buyers but tenants. We'll be FTL (first time landlords) and are renting our home to fund the move. We've also had to fork out for various certificates and EA fees for that, and had given ourselves a couple of days to finish decorating etc for them.

We've just managed to reach them via the EA and, thankfully, they don't have to vacate their current house until a few days later. Been feeling awful for them too! Obviously we would like to let them know asap if this fall through so they can find somwehere else.

So from that point of view, postponing for 2 weeks may make things salvageable. But now I don't know if we can trust the seller! And still radio silence.

That's just it though. Simultaneous exchange / completion leads to issues like you're having today!

It just doesn't make sense that there is radio silence - it is so unprofessional on all levels. I know you want to go round there and give them what for - where do you stand in terms of housing stock around you? Is there anything else on the market today which would suit? I know it's not ideal but it seems like your vendors are happy to muck you around - I'm not sure I would want to line their pockets..