Any experts on f30 doors and building regs?

[Witchlight]

Hi, are there any experts on f30 compliant doors for building regulations. I’ve just been thrown a bit of a curved ball.

I am adding a kitchen extension and converting a loft. Because the loft conversion adds another floor, the doors leading to the hall need to be F30 compliant.

We have planned to re-use the 1930s original doors as they are solid doors which are all between 45 and 48mm deep. However, they do have 3 panels at the top and bottom of the doors which are not so deep.

When we agreed the building plans, we spoke to the building control company and they agreed these doors complied (they had a site visit)

I got an email from building control , yesterday evening, saying..... this is usually okay if the existing doors are solid oak doors that fit in their frame well, have no cracks or damages and have no hollow panels or glass. I did see the existing doors and it appears they are hollow panelled doors, these are deemed unacceptable when it comes to installing a loft conversion and will need replacing with FD30 doors,...

I can’t confirm if they are oak, but they are solid wood. Does the “hollow” refer to the panels? The builder will be putting in new door-frames and will ensure they fit tightly. Did they ven make hollow doors in the 1930s?

Is there anything I can do to the original doors to make them compliant? We had already agreed to add 3 special hinges and will have a fire detection system in every room.

I really want to keep the old doors! It’s not about saving money and I know there are decentish F30 doors about (although they are not solid wood)

Is anyone aware of 1920s/1930s style solid oak f30 doors?

I have had Edwardian quality panelled doors accepted, they were very thick (about 44mm) planed down from 2" stock, like a front door. 1930's doors are more likely to be 35mm, unless a grand house.

1930's doors sometimes had ply panels, you can tell by looking at the grain as the veneer is shaved, not sawn. I don't know when hollow doors came into use. I thought it was 1940's wartime. But they are flat, not panelled, until fairly recently. I knew a retired cabinetmaker who made some in the 1950's.

With a 1930's house the original doors might have been replaced. Some photos might be informative. Include the top of the door, and the edges where the hinges and locks are cut in, please.

Thanks for replying.

I can’t send the photos you request yet, as I’m not living there. I’ll ask the builder to send me them on Monday. It would be very useful to have a second opinion, as I would love to keep the original doors. They fit the house and I don’t think the engineered oak ones, even the same style, will look quite so right.

The only two photos I do have are attached. The doors have all the right cabinetry and paint layers to be the original doors and even though it is definitely not a grand house (between the wars terrace) it is solidly built with small arts and craft details that must have taken some time and skill.

I recognise the type.

It would be unexpected if they were solid oak. I would have thought a grained finish on softwood more likely. Skilfully done it can be very convincing. I have an example pic somewhere. Or look at the internal doors in the National Gallery.

But pics will make it clearer. Please photograph the stops (that the door closes against) on the door linings ("frames") as well, they are probably nailed on but might be machined out of the solid. Fire doors are thicker so awkward with machined rebates.

incidentally, I can tell you how to straighten the warped ones. Or your builder will know.

You can easily get 4-panel fire doors, I don't think I've seen 6-panel ones. Mine are in paint grade and not very expensive, if you want veneered they will cost more. I have seen solid wood fire doors in a prestige office development, and they were incredibly expensive, but I don't remember the figure. Maybe £500 apiece? They were white maple.

In short you will not be able to prove that your doors comply and building control shouldn’t have offered to accept anything other than a door set that has a proven, tested fire rating.

I know it can be frustrating but these regs are there for a reason. Especially with the room being a kitchen, one of the more likely places for a fire to start.

@LightsS0bright

Well put.

I've seen good 1 over 3 FD30 compliant doors but not 6 panel ones - but I wasn't looking to be fair. I think it would be very difficult to retrospectively make non compliant doors compliant - you can upgrade FD20s, but it would be hard to do it from scratch.

As another option you could put in a sprinkler system which means you can keep all your existing doors and have open plan living on the ground floor if you wanted it.

Thanks for the replies. We are having “built in” fire sensors in all rooms, so I’m not ignoring safety. I think the problem is that I have got used to the idea that we are keeping these doors. Keeping the old floor, keeping the stained glass details on the windows and the old doors would have provided some “period features” to the house.

Strangely, the problem isn’t the new kitchen, but the extra livable floor.

www.ukoakdoors.co.uk/dx30-1930-s-style-oak-fire-door

www.ukoakdoors.co.uk/dx-60-s-style-oak-veneer-internal-fire-door

The second one is a reasonable-ish solution (thinks of the things I could have bought with 9x£275) but I would still like it to be wood, rather than veneer!

Oh well, wishes don’t change things! It’s not ideal, but doesn’t have to be. I think doing up an old house makes you very philosophical 🙂

Thanks again for the replies

For our loft conversion, we were able to keep the original doors as they were upgraded with fire resistant paint and fire retardant strips around them. Could that be an option?

Also, this company made a period-style fire door for us to fit an awkward shape in the new loft room. They re-use reclaimed timber to make them and can make them to any size/shape - even with some glazing:

periodprojects.co.uk/

Thanks,

I wanted the original doors, stripped and oiled, to tie in with the original floorboards. I really don’t want painted doors. It’s interesting that that solution was not offered by building control though.

I have found some almost the same as the original, solid but with veneered oak. They also offer a bespoke service for the 2 unusually sized doors.

I think I need to discuss this all with the architect, building control and builder before I go any further as it is £2k of doors that weren’t planned for. Whilst it is very tempting to order bespoke ones in solid oak, they would cost £6k and will eat a hole in my contingency funds.

Again, thanks for all the help