Layout plan- please help!!

[newyorky09]

Sorry in advance if this seems confusing but I am so stuck about what to do with the layout of my downstairs. My husband and I have been talking about it for years and just going round in circles so any advice would be much appreciated! We were due to start an extension at the start of lockdown but postponed it and now the extra time in the house has made us rethink our plans again.
So we currently have a knocked through lounge and dining room which we really like as it is a lovely open room with original flooring etc. Then we have a separate kitchen which is a good size but we wanted a kitchen diner and we have an old conservatory that will need replacing in next few years. I’ve put up our present layout as ‘now’. We started off wanting a new extension which would give us the following:

• downstairs Toilet
• nice kitchen diner with views of garden but doesn’t have to be massive
• keeping the lounge dining room as we like this room
• utility (but doesn’t seem possible with out also extending to the side which we can’t afford)

The architect then drew up the first plan as below but we couldn’t get planning permission for extending back 5m. He said it wouldn’t work going back 4m.

So we agreed on the second plan which is all open plan except for a small lounge. We’ve been rethinking this though as: the lounge would be very small; we’d lose the large lounge dining room which we really like; not sure if we really want open plan living as husband a chef and does a lot of cooking (small home business). But then open plan would look great and be lovely space.

So now we are thinking should we:

• add small utility at the back of the open plan kitchen diner in the plan we have
• revert back to original plan 1 (although only going out 4m) not bother with the island And have a smaller kitchen diner perhaps with french doors. This would be approx 5.7 x 4m in size. Would that be big enough for kitchen diner with a small table?

Sorry again for the rambling post- this is driving me mad! Any advice or other suggestions we’ve not thought of would be really appreciated! Thanks!

I like plan 2 - i think you would live in the back of the house all the time! Perhaps use the front room in winter as a tv/snug room?

How far back is your current kitchen? Isn't it already 5m so squaring it off would presumably be under permitted development with neighbour consultation?

How sure are you that you wouldn't get planning for 5 m?

We are in a similar quandary about extension plans. Although I love our front room so want to leave it separate. In your case I would do plan 2 but move the lounge diner wall about a metre into the dining space to separate a nice front room. Then put the kitchen in the interior part of the house where you will have bright lights. the new extension being dining and a new sitting area.

I like the widening of the hallway because I hate long narrow corridors. That is a lot of work though - taking out a structural fireplace by the looks of it, and if you can't afford to go out to the side, can you afford that? Architects often don't seem to know the price of stuff, which can be frustrating.

How much space do you have to the side?

How far does your kitchen extend now? Is the 4m extension to where the kitchen back wall is now or is it further?

You could utilise the current study for a utility area as well as WC???

Thanks for the replies- really helpful. The current kitchen goes out 5m but is an old extension and will need to come down to rebuild the new extension. We would have got planning for 5m but neighbour wasn’t happy so we agreed on 4m. We do have quite a bit of space to the side but there is a stand-alone garage at the front of the house. I do like plan 2 but as mentioned it does involve a lot of structural work to take out the existing fireplace. It’s so hard to know what to do as it’s a big expensive job and I think it would look great but essentially we don’t gain much floor space!

If we did plan 1 I did wonder about having washer and dryer in the old study area. It wouldn’t be a separate room but could be a utility area maybe. Other possibility is a utility at the back of family area in plan 2 (With a door off the hall) but might take up too much room and not sure if would be a good idea with no windows/ventilation.

How would you feel about some sort of internal folding door/partition arrangement? I used to live in a house where the living room and dining room could be divided, or open plan, depending on what you were doing and how you wanted it set up. We usually kept the partition shut when we wanted to be cosy in the front room, and open when we had more people around. If you had something like that, you could maintain having a separate space for times when you want it, but you're not losing the larger open plan space at the times when that works for you.

Thanks again for the replies- so helpful to hear other views. Keep them coming! An internal door could work- just not sure if we did it in plan 2 we’d lose more walls to put things along if that makes sense. Something to think about.

I think they both look good but I do prefer plan 1 as it gives a much nicer lounge. Would it be worth re-discussing with your neighbours as it makes a big difference to you and a metre will make no difference to them really. And if you’d get planning then someone could move into your house after you anyway and then re-extend (more disruption and noise). You could offer to plant screening or trellis etc. And I think you could definitely fit a big utility cupboard at the end of the hall- I wouldn’t bother with a separate sink, just stacked washer dryer and somewhere to dry clothes.

@heronwatchet How do you dry clothes in a utility cupboard?

If you have space at the side then you could put the loo off the entrance hall and a utility out behind it with access from the study / hallway. Leave the lounge diner alone and just have a kitchen diner across the back (including the additional width from the side).
All assuming you have enough side access space though.

@newyorky09

If we did plan 1 I did wonder about having washer and dryer in the old study area. It wouldn’t be a separate room but could be a utility area maybe. Other possibility is a utility at the back of family area in plan 2 (With a door off the hall) but might take up too much room and not sure if would be a good idea with no windows/ventilation.

Your plan 1 is basically my house . Utility where the old study space was and a hanging contraption above the washer/dryer space.

It works really well for us - and ours only goes out 4m. Just have to design the kitchen so that it's not cramped. Only thing I would change is that I'd have a large floor-ceiling cupboard in the kitchen (kicking myself we didn't include it).

What about extending the kitchen across the back of the house (blue) downstairs loo (pink) and utility room (green)?

Or if you may have to have 2 doors between kitchen and loo. (Personally I don't like a loo off a utility room.) I would use a pocket door for the entry to the lobby, and keep things like broom and apron against the wall opposite the door.

Alternatively, again create a lobby before the loo, but use the remaining space in the kitchen for awalk-in pantry (blue P). A pantry needs ventilation, though. Can you ventilate it on that side?

Thanks for all the great ideas- lots to think about. Please can I ask greyinganddecaying what the layout is like in your kitchen? Also Do you have doors the full width of the back of the house? Thanks

I like your idea of a reduced size plan 1, and use the study area as the utility room.

Have you thought about having the end wall at an angle at the back - so the one wall would go out to 4m to keep the neighbour happy but to 5m on the other side. Would give you an extra triangle of space that you could maybe use to play around with the layout, do something interesting to get the extra bits in.

There was a great property show on earlier in lockdown - maybe bbc1 or channel 5 - where people who were renovating got 2 different architects to do a virtual reality presentation of their ideas for the spaces. The bloke architect tended to make things all plywood, dark and fancy but most people ending up with the female architect as her ideas were much more pragmatic and liveable and often had some really neat ideas in. If you’re able to figure out which programme it was from my vague description, it would be well with watching and even looking up the female’s website to see if she has any extra stuff on it, as she did some great stuff that looked really well thought through that worked in real houses rather than in the big expensive grand design type ones that are often on tv!

Oh yes I know the programme you mean- think it was your home made perfect! Wish we could go on it and see different options in virtual reality! So hard to decide but really helpful hearing different ideas.

As the original extension is 5m, does the neighbour even have a leg to stand on if they object to 5m for the replacement? Could you make the part of the extension that replaces the old extension 5m, and the part that replaces the conservatory 4m?

What about keeping the lines of the conservatory but having the corner completely open up with bifolds giving you courtyard /open plan in the summer. Island in green, bench seat /sofa in orange. Turn your study area into utility room/ boot room, you can use bench area with built-in storage (plus picture window?) for studying. Keep the sliding doors of your lounge diner then you can connect if you want.

I bet this would be cheaper too x

I would do plan 2 but mocw the kitchen back so that you have the entire back of the house as living space and makea for a better kitchen layout.

The new large living space wiill replace your through lounge bur you still have a separate lounge if you want quiet.

*move

When I say move back, I mean move the kitchen into what has been labelled the family space in plan 2.

I wondered about doing the back of the extension to two different lengths just not sure if it would look odd with the roof as it has to be an apex roof. I’ll have to ask the architect. Thanks again for all suggestions.

@newyorky09 - sorry for the delay. I've attached a very rough layout. We built across the back of the house - we split it 50:50 into kitchen and diner, with the breakfast bar dividing it.
This worked for us as we have small children we need to keep away from oven/hob.

Thank you @greyinganddecaying really useful to see