Forest hill or Crystal Palace?? Is London property risky?

[Dreambow]

Hi,
We are searching for a family home in south east London. We love areas like Balham, dulwich, Blackheath and Greenwich but can’t afford there. We have looked in forest hill and worried about how quiet it is on the high st and reports that the Dartmouth Arms pub is closing etc. Have only recently viewed in Crystal Palace so very new to us.
What do you think of forest hill vs Crystal Palace? Which area has more potential?

We are also worried about London properties falling in general as we would like to stay in London for 5 years and then move out and would hate to be in negative equity. Really open to any advice? Thank you so much

I have given up trying to predict the property market. We have bought our houses with a view that we can afford repayments during rainy days and can weather an interest rate rise. When picking areas we looked at whether we liked the area in terms of its general feel, amenities, schools and connections, and bought houses that had scope to improve.
We did well with our first house in that it almost doubled in value - but so did the area that we bought our current house in. At the end of the day it's your home.
I think the most important question you have to ask yourself if you want a house for the next 5 years, or more long term. With your budget I would look long term. Thinking back to when we bought our first house we should have picked a different area with more long-term potential, so that we wouldn't have had the upheaval when everyone is settled.

Dazed has it right, risk irrelevant if you plan to stay but 5 years is a tricky timeline as everything so up on the air. I don't envy your choice!

@binkydinky. Touchy because you assumed my issue with the estate was snobbery. Given your reply assuming I can't afford SW12 & am therefore jealous confirms it for me.

You couldn't pay me to live in Balham or Clapham personally. I grew up in Balham, but its far too "old/established" for my current stage in life. I just don't like that house or area

I also think FH has better transport links (and Babur!) - but with your budget loads of places to choose from in the SE!

@Hutella that is the million dollar question! I honestly have no idea now. We were roughly thinking before of Kingston or Carshalton way but DC1 is 5 so it was a distant plan. I honestly thought we would never leave London (at most move to z5 or z6) as DH & I are both born & raised here & we have been spoiled by short commutes.

However with DH looking at much more remote working (he currently does 1 day at home, I already wfh 2 days & go in 1 day) it feels like lots of areas are open to us now.

Friends have moved to Kent, Sussex & Hampshire. I like Hampshire & it has good schools. Also have some friends who moved to Bristol which I like a lot as it has a good buzz & amenities. Often I find the outer zones don't really have much in terms of high streets except from the obligatory chinese & indian. I do like having stuff on my doorstep that I can walk to so perhaps a smaller city is better.
Admittedly the constant traffic & congestion is getting to me as we often drive South on the weekend (day trips, visit friends) & it can take an age to get out.

The five year thing has hamstrung you; you seem to be looking at this primarily as an investment instead of a home. Buy a house that suits you, which you can grow into, and which you could stay in for ten years if you needed to, and it will suit another family when you come to sell.

Have you looked at Brockley at all, particularly the conservation area? Look at the roads leading to Hilly Fields park, especially Tressillian, Wickham, Breakspears and Tyrwhitt roads. TFL Overground at Brockley, main line trains from St Johns and Lewisham, and the DLR at Deptford Bridge and Lewisham. This house is sold STC but it gives you an idea of what 1.4 million would get you.

@Kamma89 I don't understand your problem. I linked to a house that was big & had offstreet parking in an area that the OP thought she couldn't afford. You thought it was in a dead zone & near a charmless estate which is fair enough. I was also raised in Balham (my mum still lives there) & I know that the road as @trollymo also said is close to the high street & an excellent primary so challenged you. Because I responded to you, you called me touchy & maturely assumed it must be my house. Now that is snobby! If I don't agree why shouldn't I respond?
I also read charmless as unattractive as thats often the context when describing architecture as such. Why would the fact young professionals rent there make the estate charmless? You don't have to like a house or area but it's a bit odd to get so tetchy when others challenge that view.

With that budget OP I would look at Telegraph Hill - particularly Erlanger Road, Pepys Road, Jerningham Road, maybe Pendrell Road. Huge semi detached houses with up to 100 foot gardens, views over london, great schools / parks / transport. These houses will hold their value absolutely. (I say bitterly, as I could never afford them). Erlanger is the nicest / quietest but the others are slightly bigger. All huge though. Some crazy recent pricing but Erlanger standard is about 1.325m

Meant to add, Telegraph Hill is SE14, between new cross gate, brockley and nunhead.

I second @wtftodo's recommendation of Telegraph Hill. Haberdashers' Hatcham has had a bit of a dip of late but it remains very popular with parents and keeps prices high around there.

If you want to move to the country in 2025 then why not now? You could get a long term home and stability without worries about recouping the 100k I’d stamp duty or what you spent on the house.

Or just invest part of your money elsewhere and spend less on your house. The stamp duty drops drastically as the price comes down.

Zhampagne I think Haberdashers' has relied on its reputation for many years but you're right that it remains (mystifyingly in my opinion) very popular with parents.

I agree that there are some fabulous houses in Brockley, particularly in the roads you mention.

Thanks everyone - I think everyone is right when it comes to predicting the housing market - it’s almost impossible now. Would rather stay in London for the next few years and like the convenience and going out etc but could be a poor choice with working from home etc

Thanks re telegraph hill - is there much to do around there in terms of cafes, restaurants and bars? I just looked at some of the houses - crazy sizes.

This is one is out of budget but a crazy size!!

Musgrove Road, London, SE14
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-81880480.html

This is one you get in forest hill, slightly cheaper. Looks like close to the station and horniman but on a main road.

London Road, London, SE23
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-81357022.html

What are your thoughts?

The one you linked to in Forest Hill is on a very busy road (think it even forms part of the South Circular) I wouldn't want to live on that road. I don't know the road in Telegraph Hill but I wouldn't want those steps into the garden.

I love the look of the 2nd one but in reality a wider house & less steps is more practical.

Steps to get into the house are a PITA with a pram.

Probably not relevant with 9(!) bedrooms but think carefully about what you would do for storage in a house with a converted loft.

OP, have you got any children yet or just pregnant/planning?

Baffling to me that people are suggesting Brockely when OP is after a high-street - where is the high-street in Brockley? Save for a few cafes, it's pretty derelict and one of the reasons I opted for Forest Hill over it.

Forest Hill in general is quite 'quiet' which is what drew me to it having previously lived in Brixton for years (I love Brixton but it can feel suffocating). I live just off London Road, which is back up and running and doesn't seem 'quieter' to me. The shops I usually go to are open and the Sainsburys is a life-saver. One of a few supermarkets that didn't massively struggle with stock during covid imo and managed the whole social distancing thing very well. Dartmouth Rd is quieter I agree, and I too heard that the Darmouth Arms is closing. They're apparently looking for buyers, but the Sylvan Post is due to reopen soon.

If it's more of a high street you're after, Honor Oak has been booming whenever I've passed through recently, though it is more of a coffee culture, if that's your thing. I'm not massively familiar with Crystal Palace, but judging by the comments on MN, I gather the highstreet is very nice (I've only recently moved to FH, so I'm still finding my feet).

I'd avoid Lewisham/Catford etc. Keep hearing good things about Bromley/Beckenham for high streets and schools.

If a high-street is the deal breaker for you, then I guess you can't go wrong with Blackheath. I was there earlier this week as needed to replenish my farrow and ball paint so visited their showroom. I was taken aback by how busy it was - and this was a Monday morning. Perhaps it helped that the sun was out but it has the most beautifully quaint high-street with some great shops/coffee spots. The general villagey feel of the place helps too. If money were no object, I'd move there in a heartbeat!

@trollymo yes literally a million dollar question! I guess it's a good problem to have. It's hard to place all your eggs in an area when you don't have any particular connection.

Our friends (those still tied to London with work) are spread across places like Richmond, New Malden, Bromley, Tonbridge, East Grinstead and other bits of Surrey & Kent. Those who cut the London cord are in Bath, York, Southampton..

I guess if you like Hampshire and are OK with the commute, Winchester comes to mind... or more Surrey Farnborough & Fleet.

DH and I are very outdoorsy but still urbanites and would probably move well out when we retire one day, but until then I want to stick to an under 1.25 hour door to door commute (even with only 1-3 days a week in the office)

The musgrove one is overpriced and north facing garden / double fronted... I'd say you'd get a nicer road house for less. Look at Omaney road too.

Haberdashers primary is outstanding and they have a new head for the high school after the blip/drop to "good" report. There's also other excellent schools of course... Waller, John stainer etc for primary and other options at secondary.

Tel hill itself is small but seems like a real community... there's nurseries, an active playclub every day in the park, a community run cafe and centre with pilates / groups etc, and two pubs (Skehans and The Telegraph) but tbh you'd go into Nunhead - great pubs, shops, bars - or Brockley, or a bit further to deptford or peckham. We are the wrong side (!) of new cross road from telegraph hill and there's also pubs and bars here but I tend to go out to nunhead or peckham.

Also, Herne Hill is lovely, having lived not far from there when I was in Brixton. The high-street imo was just 'ok' but I loved the sunday market! I guess you can never go wrong with Herne Hill. I would think for your budget your could afford something in Dulwich too, not far from the village.

Somebody posted on here that East Dulwich was more expensive than West, I always thought it was the other way around. Croxted Road/Thurlow Park etc have the dreamiest, giant sized homes.

Dulwich is also home to possibly the most beautiful home in London - this badboy; Tiverton Lodge - www.mittelmanassociatesarchitects.com/tiverton-lodge.html

Directly opposite Dulwich College. I'm always in awe when I walk past.

The best advice I can give is to really think about what is important to you and what your lifestyle is like. Our list was:

Great state schools including secondary (that ruled out a lot of areas)
4 bedrooms of decent size

At least two bathrooms
Rear access - either semi detached or a terrace with rear passage way

We don't really care about some of the things a lot of people on here really care about: like how nice the road is (obviously don't want to live next door to a crack den but not bothered about a mix of houses and flats on a road); parking (we don't have a car and even if we get one in the future, we won't use it daily); garden (wanted some garden but size etc wasn't that important to us).

Everyone has their own preferences - and even with a budget like yours, in London that involves compromising which you can't do without knowing what you really want.

We had a budget not totally dissimilar to yours and went for a bigger semi with potential rather than a terrace in Balham or East Dulwich, partly because of house size and partly schools but I totally understand why people make different calls

Now I can see the size of the houses you are looking at I can see why Balham is out of your price range!
Agree Smallgoon Thurlow Park, Alleyn Road have the most spectacular houses but at very hefty price tags!
OP since you don't have children yet do you really want/need 6 or 7 bedroom houses? Would you be better with a smaller house, which will definitely accommodate future children, in your preferred area. Especially since you don't intend to stay longer than 5 years. By the time children are school age you say you want to move to the country anyway. Just a thought!

@Hutella do you have any ideas where you would go?

That's the difficulty of having no ties although I went to uni in Hampshire so know it probably the best. I have friends in Surrey too but have never liked it much except Guildford. We need to see what DH will be doing long term, currently looking at 1 day a wk max & longer term I think they will look at smaller hubs dotted about. I keep reading about everyone leaving though & get worried we will be priced out

OP i recall there is a big regeneration plan for CP park itself to consider. Maybe somebody knows more?

How about Bromley/Beckenham:

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-81908953.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-71628147.html

Good primary schools, and you can still easily visit Horniman museum and Crystal Palace Park without tolerating the traffic there!