Very trivial question about becoming a landlord

[justpoppy]

I’ll be renting out my house from 1st September to a trusted family friend. We have both agreed that we will still have a tenancy agreement, I’ve done reference checks today and speaking to a broker tomorrow about insurance. Gas and electricity safety tests are being done next week too.

The house is in good condition but the oven , although it works properly, has to be turned on and off from the mains to make sure it’s fully off. A family member thinks that it’s unacceptable for an appliance that has what I think are minor issues, to be rented with the property and wants me to buy a brand new oven. They think that because the oven is integrated into the kitchen then it’s my responsibility to make sure it’s working 100%. Are they correct or can I get away with just giving the existing oven a jolly good clean and explain to my tenants how it works.

Anything else I need to know? The local agent wanted a to charge a substantial fee to do the checks and have a tenancy agreement drawn up hence doing it myself.

There's no harm in asking if they want to contribute to a better quality oven. Personally I wouldn't with an oven as I don't use the oven part creatively enough to care as long as it gets hot 🤷🏻‍♀️ But there are other things around the house I'd rather contribute to than live with w brand new but lesser quality item (fridge/shower/dishwasher)

Many years ago I took the money a LL was going to spend on carpets and spent a bit more to get better quality and I have allowed tenants to do similar and it's never been a problem & it's nice to have a day where you can when you're a tenant.

Thanks both. I shall measure up and order it today.

@IncrediblySadToo I’ve asked them and they’ve said the basic one is fine for them. They said exactly the same as you... as long as it gets hot they don’t care

i wonder whether you realise how much work is involved in being a landlord.
your judgment of your own abilities in that area might be a bit optimistic.
how could you imagine that you could let property with an unsafe appliance. a cooker is an everyday use item with obvious serious hazards if faulty, as to fire risk and electrocution.
it not like saying the wardrobe is wonky or you have to jiggle the door to lock it.
i would be a bit worried if i was your tenant, as to what else you might dismiss, or try to save money on.
there are lots of responsibilities with letting property to a tenant. its not the same as having a lodger. the law is different, more onerous.

Thanks @alexdgr8. You are right, it was naive of me to think I could let it with a broken appliance. Everything else is in good condition (I had a new combi boiler fitted during lockdown) so I don’t anticipate anything going wrong in the short term. That said, half the rent will be going into a separate account for a contingency fund should anything happen. The house is mortgage free and for the time being at least, I think it would be prudent to keep it rather than sell. If there are any other responsibilities I need to think of please say.

[quote justpoppy]@IncrediblySadToo I’ve asked them and they’ve said the basic one is fine for them. They said exactly the same as you... as long as it gets hot they don’t care [/quote]
Excellent.

Good Luck with it all. There's so much to do if you do it yourself, but do many agents are so crap (&expensive)

You sound like you are going to make a great and caring landlord!

Even if letting to a friend, you have lots of obligations and need to accept there are significant costs in being a landlord. Don’t view the rent you receive as profit. It is revenue as like all businesses, costs must be paid before you find out how much profit there is....and it’s substantially lower than the rental income.

All businesses have costs and you shouldn’t cut corners which means you aren’t meeting obligations. All appliances should be fully working and decent. You should be prepared to buy a policy to cover boiler breakdown emergency cover or to pay an emergency plumber to come out immediately if there’s a problem. As an owner occupier you might go for the cheaper option of someone coming next week but can’t do that as landlord - tenants have paid for these things to not be their concern and you to sort it immediately - that will cost and it’s no good trying to scrimp or?eesenting it - it just is one of the costs involved.

Letting to friends often muddies the water. You might be letting a bit cheaply in these circumstances ....but don’t think it means you can deliver a cheap service - these thoughts are the way to conflict and trouble. Definitely do a tenancy agreement and actually I would take a deposit. I would keep it all as a mormalvtenancy because tgeee are lots of positives for landlords and tenants.

Make sure you’re clear about tenant telling you about minor probs before they get worse. Make sure you’re clear that you will send workmen approved by you and pay but that if tenant sources wirkmenvwithour approval first you won’t be paying. Make sure you’re clear utilities and council tax go in their name. It all needs to be clear and written down.

Too often friendship lets result in conflicts because there isn’t enough clarity. The LL thought they could offer sub standard service and delay repairs as friend wouldn’t mind, but they did as they were paying. Tenant friend thought LL wouldnt mind if rent was a bit late or if they put up some pics, but LL did kind.

If LL is amateur and tenant has never had formal tenancy, there’s a lot to go wrong in misunderstandings of expectation. Voicing those can be tricky with friends which is why spelling it out and doing it all as you would with any tenant really is the best way for all concerned.

Landlords need to provide an efficient and reliable service, delivering what has been paid for,,quickly and efficiently, whilst letting tenants enjoy what is now their home. This is more important than being friendly, caring etc.

If your tenant is also a friend, there’s potentially a conflict of interest and it can be more tricky not to overstep boundaries. Eg you might go round in a way you wouldn’t with a normal tenant ...but need to avoid commenting on it being untidy or the gardens not been kept up etc. Hard balancing act.

Please make sure you take a deposit and protect it in the scheme. To do otherwise is madness.

Also read up on the latest electrical safety checks required to let a house (came in June this year). It is not just getting appliances PAC tested, although that is part of it. Your whole house needs to be up to date wrt electrical safety. The standard was updated in 2018, so unless your house has been rewired since then you may have some work to do. Legally this needs to be done before the tenant moves in.

Eg, I believe the new regs say that each wall socket needs to be individually earthed. Although this has always been good practice, it is often not done.

Rent it without an oven and give her the oven that's there. If she doesn't want it remove it. I don't think you'd be covered if you let it with an oven and it caused damage because. I doubt she'd be covered either but that's also her choice

@WombatChocolate thank you so much for such Great advice. It’s things like that I need to hear and keep in mind.

@bedtimestories I’m going to get them a new oven. They’re not to expensive and my dad can fit it for me. I’m renting it without a washing machine but leaving mine here which works perfectly well but has a dodgy door! All the other appliances are built in so I know I’ll be responsible for those.

buy a second hand oven. As long as it is in good working condition, that will be fine. No need to spend 800 on a new oven

You need to take a deposit and put it in a protected scheme. That is the law.

Before you go any further Join the National Landlord Association.
£80 pa round about (tax deductible) They have an unlimited phone
advice line which would be a godsend for you. They offer good training etc.
An annual gas check is c £60 and some companies will do a service
for £20 more. The electric check depends on size of property :
£120 to £180 and is valid for 5 years. Any remedial work has to be
done within 28 days and tenants must be given the report before
they move in.
You will also need to do a right to rent check and EPC cert
All docs must be shown to them before they sign.
And this is just the start!

@ShreksAuntie that’s really kind of you. I hope I will be. Just so much to think about and at the same time packing the house up for our move.

@Lightsabre is it law to actually take a deposit or is it that you have a legal obligation to put the deposit into a scheme?

@LOVELYDOVEY05 Thanks for that. I’ll have a look. Have got a tenancy agreement now and gas/electrical checks booked for this week. Smoke/carbon monoxide detectors on my to do list as well.

Oh and I already have a valid EPC certificate from when I bought the house. Anything else I need to think about?

I would advocate spending about £80 & becoming a member of NRLA (landlord association) tax deductible phone advice downloaded paperwork & forum - they explain up to date rules
personally I would always take a deposit (5 weeks maximum) against accidental damage or carelessness or tenant going into debt -there is a world of difference between having a lodger & a tenant. People loose their job, get into debt, have a family even if they are your best friend

cross post! great minds!!! No you don't have to take a deposit its just wiser to do so

Thanks @mumwon I hadn’t really thought of it like that (probably should have done though given we’re going through a global pandemic) anything could happen!

One other thing. Check your buildings insurance . Do they allow tenants
and if so do they have any requirements Get this all in writing.
Oh and make sure you keep receipts for everything you spend.
You may not be able to claim it all but never mind.
Keep all the paperwork as well.

Join the RLA. I own nine rental properties and am on the phone to the RLA on a regular basis about all sorts of stuff. You can NOT let the place with a faulty oven. You now also need to get an EICR from a qualified electrician so they'd bring the oven up too. Whatever you do, seek professional info because there are hundreds of pieces of legislation you need to be aware of when you let a property. The RLA is a brilliant starting point.

Remember it is a legal obligation to supply your tenant with the EPC, gas safety certificate and a copy of the how to rent guide.
If, for whatever reason, you had to evict the tenants your section 21 notice is not legally valid without having done this things at the start of the tenancy.

Buy an equivalent sized generic brand oven, otherwise no more words of wisdom.

Basic indesit oven on its way so will be fitted at the beginning of next week. Gas safety check and the electrical report also being done next week as is the inventory. Just hoping the electrical one doesn’t need any remedial work. Obviously I’ll get it done if it does but it may mean they can’t move in next Sunday.