Listed building without LBC

[Kilbranan]

We recently viewed a lovely listed house which we really like and is in surprisingly good condition. It’s B listed (Scotland) and I was a bit surprised to find some of the windows were double glazed, though sympathetically done I don’t think was the narrower type recommended for listed buildings. There is also a room off kitchen which has been added at some point - I think in 70s or 80s. From what the owners said I don’t think they have LBC. We’ve asked the estate agent to find this out for us.
The house is otherwise, in many ways perfect for us.
My question is, if there is no LBC would anyone proceed with buying the house??
Has anyone been in a similar situation?
Many thanks in advance for your thoughts and experience of this!

Not without a lot of good advice but if done without the consents I would probably not bother unless I desperately wanted it

When was it listed?

In the early 70s, possible the extra room was added before this but unlikely
It is a really amazing house though!

You can get LBC for double glazed windows as long as it's slimline units, but it's highly unlikely that planning will open an enforcement for having the thicker units if there is planning permission for double glazing. If the extension was built prior to the listing then it will be fine. If there are works done without permission then you will be liable for putting it right. You should be able to check if there's planning permission by talking to the local planning office and check when it was listed on this website: www.historicenvironment.scot/advice-and-support/listing-scheduling-and-designations/listed-buildings/search-for-a-listed-building/

whilst i'm not familiar with the scottish planning system, in england it is possible to put in a retrospective application for planning permission to regularise any oversights. if they've been in situ for a number of years this is a formality. i would assume there is similar in scotland. this would be a matter for your solicitor to clarify as part of the sale process i feel?

In England it’s probably a case of tracking down the right person in planning, likely to be the conservation officer. No idea about Scotland but hopefully something similar. Definitely worth getting to the bottom of these issues before proceeding.

@CrotchetyQuaver

whilst i'm not familiar with the scottish planning system, in england it is possible to put in a retrospective application for planning permission to regularise any oversights. if they've been in situ for a number of years this is a formality. i would assume there is similar in scotland. this would be a matter for your solicitor to clarify as part of the sale process i feel?

Unfortunately, as listed building have an extra level of protection, you can't get retrospective listed building consent to regularise already carried out works and no time limit for the works either. The unregulated works are a criminal offence. You can work with the planning enforcement and conservation officers and their consultees to mitigate the damage the unregulated works have done. Or see if the works would have been granted listed building consent then you can apply for the consent without criminal proceedings.

And if planning officers say work needs to be corrected and there is a financial penalty to put right the unregulated works, such as replacing windows that differ from the listed building consent, your solicitor can negotiate the cost ofthe works off the agreed sale price. The works must be carried out in a timely manner though.

Total mine field! We have asked estate agent for clarity but still not heard anything back
The small extension will have been there for 40 years plus from the look of it. Fx it’s actually older than the listing as it would be a real headache to fix

Actually, looking at it again the listing itself mentions ‘later additions’ but doesn’t specify what these are so maybe that includes the additional room off the kitchen! It’s a very brief listing, not really any detail at all.
We previously looked at another listed house and it’s listing detailed the external features of each aspect of the house exterior as well as numerous internal features. This house’s listing is barely a couple of lines! That gives me a little hope that it would be ok (windows are easier to change / fix if need be)

Op I am a Scottish planner.

In terms of what is covered by the listed. Imagine picking up the house and shaking it, anything that doesn't fall out is covered by the listing, inside and out. Only like for like repairs are allowed without concent.

If you are thinking of buying it, please speak to the council planners, discuss what works have been done without LBC and what they would want done about them. If the windows don't adversely impact the character of the building they may be ok. I have approved upvc double glazing to listed buildings in the past.

Also as doing works to a listed building is a criminal offence I would check with your mortgage company, they may have an issue with that.

Thanks raffle. It’s good to hear your perspective from a planner’s POV. If we are thinking about making offer we were thinking we could get one of the specialist surveyors who can also look at things specific to listed buildings to pick up any things we might not have noticed. Then follow up as suggested by them. It does make me a bit nervous but the windows do look like the existing in terms of style, are wood etc and none on the front elevation which is a good thing too I suppose.
I’m pretty sure the small extension was added after listing but would still be at least 40 years old, and again it’s not on the front elevation of the house.

Another thing we noticed is that some of the rooms have internal insulation on the walls, effectively foam panels stuck onto the walls and papered over. Which is a bit weird but maybe not a disaster. Not sure how they would fare in terms of fire regulations mind you

As @Raffleyourdoughnut says, the entire house is listed not just the front elevation, so unregulated works to the rear might not be as obvious as works to the front but they will still count and potentially need addressed.

I would be very worried about the internal insulation, both from a planning point of view and also from a practical one. Planning wise it's unlikely there is permission for that, especially if it impacts on original features such as skirtings, plasterwork etc. From a technical aspect, older buildings are meant to breathe and putting in a solid foam insulation will disrupt that and potentially lead to damp, staining and mould growth. Research advises against dry lining interior walls unless the system is breathable. I've seen 1990s dry lining come away and the timber in the walls behind are rotten, the historic lime plaster is falling off the walls and giant mould growths run from floor to ceiling.

Not sure about some of these comments, asking the agent is fine, you can also put an offer in and then have your solicitor gain the info, ours has additions and we were provided with the permissions etc by our solicitor as part of the buying process.

I’d not be calling the planners at this stage, just ask the agent and solicitor to find out.

The insulation though seems an issue.

would be very worried about the internal insulation, both from a planning point of view and also from a practical one. Planning wise it's unlikely there is permission for that, especially if it impacts on original features such as skirtings, plasterwork etc. From a technical aspect, older buildings are meant to breathe and putting in a solid foam insulation will disrupt that and potentially lead to damp, staining and mould growth. Research advises against dry lining interior walls unless the system is breathable. I've seen 1990s dry lining come away and the timber in the walls behind are rotten, the historic lime plaster is falling off the walls and giant mould growths run from floor to ceiling
maria that sounds horrific! Presumably hugely expensive to fix as well. Is that likely to be picked up on a specialist survey or would it only be if you were trying to fix it? Was this in a house of yours?
That’s the stuff of nightmares tbh!

A specialist survey might only register the insulation is there, not if it has planning or what the condition of the wall is behind. As a starting point, if you're putting an offer in get quotes to remove the insulation and replaster in lime and ask for that to be taken off the asking price unless proof can be given that it has planning permission and, if it does, that was constructed exactly as per the listed building consent.

I work with older buildings so I've seen a few examples of the damage that can happen 10 years down the line, by which time no-one from the construction team is liable to fix it and it's left for the poor owner to sort out.

Ok thanks maria that’s really useful