Rewiring, what do we need to think about

[Lemonylemony]

We’re in the process of buying a house, and it’s become obvious that it needs rewiring, so we’re thinking we’ll do this before we move in. Therefore we need to make all the decisions relating to this ASAP when we complete, so I’m trying to do all the prep work research now. Watching YouTube videos of electricians rewiring houses....what a mess!

What do we need to think about to be ready to make decisions?

I’ve got:

• placement of plug sockets
• type of plug sockets (singles, doubles, USB ports? Smart sockets are a thing too apparently?)
• location & height of light switches
• style of sockets and switches - white plastic, chrome, brushed steel, copper, black nickel....argh
• do we want to move any lights - have wall lights anywhere?
• there’s a hard wired smoke alarm system - should we be updating this at the same time?
• DP wants some kind of security system, is this an opportunity to get something hardwired in at the same time?

Also not sure how to approach the kitchen/dining/rear extension area, at the moment this is 3 connected rooms, the original galley kitchen has a hatch in the wall to the dining room, and both rooms have large archways on to the full width rear extension opening on to the garden. We plan to take down the wall between the kitchen and dining room to open the space up, and have the kitchen going along the remaining kitchen wall through the arch and out into extension, maybe with an island around the pillar that will be left between the archways. But weren’t planning on doing that for a while, so if we’re rewiring now, how do we account for future changes?

Sorry we are FTBers. And hopefully not planning to move for a long long time if ever. I really want to get this right.

If you fancy having ‘smart’ lighting, make sure your sparkie puts a neutral feed into the light switch back boxes, even if you don’t use them initially. Most smart light switches need a neutral to function. It will make very little difference to the cost of installation but will give you flexibility for the future.

think very hard about over complex tech because it goes obsolete. I'm amazed how long USB sockets have lasted.

Get more sockets than you think you need, it's better to have too many! Toothbrush/shaving socket in bathroom.

Wall lights are really tricky to get right - they have a tendency to look old-fashioned (1980s rather than 1880s) BUT nothing beats them for soft lighting in a living room. When we eventually come to rewiring, they're going to be top of my list.

Will then get rid of the thousands of lamps we currently have. 😁

@rslsys thanks that’s interesting. We currently have Philips hue bulbs in our rental flat so will bring those with us (have kept the old bulbs to replace when we leave!) but I will def talk to the electrician about future proofing. I still want ‘proper’ light switches so the system can be used without the smart element.

@mencken my OH keeps saying USB will be obsolete soon too! Still think we’ll get USB sockets on the kitchen counter, next to where people sit & next to the bed. Changing out the sockets is simple enough when something else comes along I guess. Similar I’m thinking there will be some areas where the sockets will not be visible behind permanent furniture where I think there’s no point spending on fancy pretty sockets and may as well just have the cheapest white plastic ones as we will never see them.

@bibbitybobbitycats thanks for the reminder, toothbrush/shaver socket on the list! Wonder whether we can get that built inside the bathroom cupboard.

@BustPipes yes I can’t make my mind up about wall lights. But I’m thinking in the living room and maybe as part of the bedside set up, like a posh hotel room

Flooring and plastering. Both will be affected.

DP wants some kind of security system, is this an opportunity to get something hardwired in at the same time?

Yes, ours has wireless sensors but the control box is hardwired with a connection to the phone line to send texts to our phones if activated. (This was installed a few years ago so there's probably a more up to date way of alerting you now)

Find a good plasterer to follow being electrician. If you have wood floors etc and carpets etc they'll need pulling up and may not go back exactly as they should. Try and put an extra socket in every room. We had a bank of 4 doubles behind the tv and behind where our desk goes to avoid running extension and it looks much neater. We also had shaver point definite must for that. Maybe have a data cable put in if you work from home to have the computer/office upstairs to get better internet quality.

Put in more sockets than you think youll need and extra data cables to every room you plan to have them in even if the extra are just left coiled up in the back box. Also data to loft in case you ever want to add external CCTV.

Consider RCBOs on every circuit. This is like having a separate RCD instead of just one or two for the whole house. Can save a great deal of inconvenience as you only lose the one faulty circuit. Especially useful when you have a wired burglar alarm that you don't want to lose when the washing machine springs a leak.

It will add to the cost but is a good-quality upgrade and prices have slowly reduced.

R1R2 do you agree?

I think there are already cat5 data cables running up to the loft conversion which is where the vendors have their study. Have to confess to not quite understanding what that means - I get that you can then plug your computer straight in to the internet via a data socket in the wall - but where is the cable coming from at the other end? Is it plugged into the modem?

Plastering - noted. The surveyor picked up some areas of blown plaster which will need sorting at the same time so there’ll probably be more work there too.

Oh balls now I’m wondering whether if we decide to fit some internal wall insulation on the exterior walls (30s end terrace) using the government’s upcoming green home grants this is going to have an implication on all of this. And that scheme won’t be launched until September so who knows when that work could be done.

Insulation before electrics? Or could any electrics chased in the external walls be easily refitted back over any insulation put in at a later date? Definitely not worth finishing the plastering until the insulation is done though

I haven’t yet understood the difference between an RCD and an RCBO, need to do more research there, but the idea of having each circuit protected individually is something I am definitely interested in.

Decent plasterer. Good electrician.

Move out. The dust is unbelievable.

More sockets than you think you need.

Think about how long the plaster will take to dry.......

Dehumidifier??

Where ever your having a TV, have atleast 4 sockets (2 doubles).

Now also consider where you going to have your router (internet box), generally people have these by the TV in their lounge. Wherever that point is, have CAT6 cables, with ethernet port wired to every TV point and any other computers you may have. Much more reliable than Wifi, will be much smarter also (not much extra in cost either).

The difference between RCD and RCBO is simple, with an RCD you'll have just normal fuses (MCBs), linked to one or two RCDs which trip out with any live or neutral leakage. They basically work by a magnetic coil, as the live and natural current is balanced, theres no change however as soon as an imbalance is detected they trip the circuit in 0.4ms. Extremely good, tbh.

RCBOs are just RCDs built into every single MCB rather than having.

The electrician can install the CCTV system also, which would be wise to setup with the ethernet Cat6 system, so you could have this is a cupboard or somthing and internet wired there.

Any sockets by your bed, sofas or any place you spend alot of time sitting/relaxing have those sockets with USB integrated

Either have white sockets, brushed steel or matte, do not have chrome, as nightmare to keep clean. Do not have the clip on faces, have screwed face plates, clip on often fall off. Walls have to be perfect for clip on face plates.

Any future extension can be just wired off the fuse to that area, no problem honestly or if you really feel you make be drawing alot of extra power over 7600kwh, then ask him to leave a 32a spur, in that room with can be tapered off later.

We have some switched 3amp (I think) plugs so you can turn on lamps all in one go from a light switch. Great at Xmas for the fairy lights.

I have recently designed and had a house rewired. Here is my brain dump of things I thought of.

1. No such thing as too many sockets. Decide where you want your TV and put in at least two double sockets.

1. I didn't put in any hard wired cat-5 sockets. Invariably you end up putting them in the wrong place. Modern Wifi is excellent and negates the need for all but the most techky people (and I include myself in that.) Look at the BT Whole Home mesh system for best in class wifi.

1. Don't worry too much about USB sockets - standard sockets can be changed later if you need them. And if you know what you're doing its legal to change your own sockets, like for like.

1. I agree with RCBOs. They are like normal circuit breakers but also include their own RCD - so if a circuit blows it only takes that circuit out. We used Contractum RCBOs from TLC - they are considerably cheaper than other makes and just as good ( they all have to pass the same safety standards.) Electricians tend to have their favourite makes - if they're too expensive insist on the cheaper ones if you care. None of them are 'crap' Get a consumer unit with extra space for future circuits - they are really not much more expensive.

1. Hard wired smoke alarms are a MUST. I had a heat detector type one put in my loft - why you ask? Because a large number of fire start in a loft and a smoke detector the floor below will only trigger when the whole house is ablaze. You should use a heat detector and not a smoke alarm. If in doubt get in touch with aico.co.uk - they are extremely helpful people. They will design a system for you.

1. Remember now is the time to put lighting to bathroom cabs.

1. Ever thinking of underfloor heating in a bathroom? Have them run a feed so if a bathroom gets redone you can add it easily.

1. We didn't bother with TV Arial points. We get all our TV over the Internet now.

the lighting sockets (usually 5A/6A) are British Standard 546 and take a small 3-pin plug with round pins, and are run off a lighting circuit, which is fused at 6A so the plugs (unlike common UK plugs) don't have fuses in them. They are used with standard lamps and table lamps, and uplighters if you like that sort of thing. The switch is usually at the door of the room. Commonly one switch does half a dozen lighting sockets spread round the room, but you can switch one end at a time, or individual sockets if you want (unlikely). You do not have to plug a lamp into every socket, you can move them around at whim with no need to rewire. I suppose you could do wall washers or picture lamps if you wanted.

Usually found in larger living rooms but you can use them in a bedroom if you want.

The small, round-pin socket prevents anybody plugging in a more powerful appliance, such as a fan heater or washing machine, and it only takes a householder about three minutes to understand what they are for.

Wiring for an electric shower, towel rail , shower point) electric toothbrush.
Supply to garage or shed.
External lighting
Will you be cooking on electric?

Hotel style bedside lights.
Don't put LEDs in landing strip runs, use triangles or hexagons
White face plates disappear to the eye, are cheap and don't need finger prints cleaning off them every 5 mins.

Lights - if you're running LED spotlights, you need to tell your sparkie before he rewires, so he can put in transformers suitable for LED spotlights (instead of the traditional halogen).

Security - most of them are now wireless for signal, but you still need power. So run electricity to points you want to put cameras, infrared motion sensors, outdoor cameras, doorbell, etc.

Ethernet - run ethernet cables to all rooms. That way you can build a proper mesh wifi network at home, and have full wifi signal everywhere in the property. Good for the security system too, and all the smart gadgets these days.

@PigletJohn

Consider RCBOs on every circuit. This is like having a separate RCD instead of just one or two for the whole house. Can save a great deal of inconvenience as you only lose the one faulty circuit. Especially useful when you have a wired burglar alarm that you don't want to lose when the washing machine springs a leak.

It will add to the cost but is a good-quality upgrade and prices have slowly reduced.

R1R2 do you agree?

Definitely, I would also say all of the RCBOs should be "Type A" on the RCD tripping current to combat the effects of dc leakage from modern electronics and seriously recommend Surge Protection built into the board. Side note on other posters comments Contactum dont currently have Type A rcbos in their stable and type ac are quite possibly going to be removed in amendment 2 of the 18th edition, there are definitely crap brands of consumer unit British General are notorious and MK while still on sale have pulled out the market so spares will soon be extremely hard to come by. CP Fusebox and Lewden are definately decent budget options while Hager is probably the best for domestic.

Having done some reading, and watching electrician YouTubers (who knew that was a thing!) I feel confident with all these terms type A RCBOs, SPD 😁 to make sure we get an appropriate set up.

Does anyone know a rough guide to how many sockets/devices/how much current is appropriate per circuit? Watching a few vids where the problem is circuits being too long and tripping because of too many devices in use simultaneously. The main part of the house currently only has 2 circuits for sockets (presuming upstairs and downstairs). Would there be a benefit to asking for more, smaller circuits - separate out say 1.porch/hallway, 2.living room (is quite large), 3.kitchen/diner area (also quite large), then say 4.landing/bedroom 1, 5.bedrooms 2/3 (b2 will be a study/gaming room so a lot of devices to itself) and then 6.bedroom 4 (is a loft conversion). Does that cost an awful lot more in terms of time/labour?

Someone asked about cooker. There is currently an old gas cooker the vendors are leaving behind, we eventually want an electric range. I think the wiring to the kitchen/diner/rear extension area will be provisional anyway as we’ll be renovating/redesigning that area later, so I don’t know how we take that into account now.

The UK socket circuit design is not based on number of sockets, but on area covered (you will have no problems there) and anticipated load.

Modern practice is to gave a lighting circuit and a socket circuit for each floor of the house, but the kitchen and/or utility room may have a washer, drier and dishwasher that may sometimes all be on at the same time, so are often given their own 32A socket circuit.

The dishwasher and washing machine only draw heavy current while heating the water (takes about ten minutes) but a tumble drier may be running pretty well continuously for an hour or so. So there is more likelihood of two or more heaters running at the same time. If you had an electric convection or fan heater at the same time this would be too much. So the separate appliance circuit is used. For large appliances like these, use single sockets, not doubles.

Other appliances like toaster and kettle draw heavy loads but only for a minute or two, and there is a principle of "diversity" which recognises that you are unlikely to be using everything at the same time.

Cookers, immersion heaters and electric showers must have their own circuits.

In my house the kitchen has a cooker circuit on each side of the room allowing the layout to be changed at whim.

Kitchens need more sockets, and switches for under counter appliances, than you would think. One every metre is I think the minimum, and one every 600mm is better. Run in a row 150mm above the worktop all round the room is easy to install. You also need switches for above-counter appliances such as cooker hoods, wall-mounted microwave, TV, boiler, and lighting in or under the wall units.

Some people like to group the switches by the door. I prefer them close to point of use so they are easily visible and their purpose is clear. You can have engraved switches saying "boiler" "freezer" "extractor" if you want. Do not hide switches and sockets inside cupboards.

No switches or sockets above the hob that you lean over.

Do not hide switches and sockets inside cupboards.

Why do you say that?

What about hardwiring in a speaker system, is this an opportunity to do that as well?

(I may be falling down a YouTube rabbit hole on smart home tech)