Family - apartment vs house

[Changemyname08]

Single parent with 2 children living in the most expensive place outside of London. I can now finally afford to buy next year, in time for my 40th birthday :)

Can anyone highlight the pros and cons of apartment vs house buying/living for me with 2 children that I may not have thought of please.

Living centrally as I do now and within walking distance to school/town/parks/children’s friends houses/train station/hospital, I can afford an apartment with allocated parking and probably a communal garden with a mortgage that means I will still have some spare cash/can save a bit.

Living a bit further out I could afford a small terraced house with garden, but would need to drive to school/town/train station/school friends houses and would have on road or permit parking, mortgage would be a bit more so wouldn’t be able to save at all or very little.

It seems that people think that as soon as you have children you should live in a family home (house). I’ve rented houses and apartments with my kids but preferred the apartments. I work full time and find a house too much work, especially things like gardening, and especially because my kids barely play in the garden (although they always say they do/will).
Financial perspective I realise that houses will likely go up in value a lot more than a purpose built apartment.

If you choose a flat, you need to make sure that the service charges are reasonable, the property is well maintained and preferably share of freehold. Check out who the neighbours are as people in flats tend to be more transient so not great if you want a good sense of community and getting to know your neighbours. You could also have some party neighbours.

The location of the house sounds obviously less convenient but having a house has its perks. You can do what you want and when you want, eg refurbish the bathroom of knock down a wall. You’re more likely to be in a family area and it’s really nice to have a private garden especially with children.

How old are your kids? Sandpit and paddling pool age or travelling independently to meet friends age?

I agree about service charges and ground rent and remember they only ever go up, never down especially in a leasehold building. Trying to buy with a share of freehold gives you more control over expenses. I think a flat conversion in a Victorian house might be a good compromise, if there are only 2 or 3 flats then you usually have a share of the freehold or reasonable service charges. Although sometimes it can be difficult to get a resident to stump up for essential repairs. Flats in larger blocks, especially those with lifts, gyms, concierge services and the like often have really expensive service charges and on top of that you will have to stump up for "block works" when work to issues with roofs, balconies, gutters etc need carrying out or painting with little say in price or contractors chosen. Also check the length and restrictions on the lease (e.g. no pets etc) before offering and all the charges from the past few years and ask if any block works are coming up.

With a freehold house you will have more control about when, how and the cost of any repairs, maintenance and improvements you want to make and if you live somewhere where mostly flats are being built (like Brighton) then you are right in your observation that a house will be a better long term investment. With a house you will also have the option to extend out and up should you ever want to. I love having a bit of outside space, I'm no gardener so just have some lavender plants and a square of grass, so low maintenance it gives a bit of distance so I don't feel encroached on and being able to open the back door and get some air in and look up at the sky has been great during lockdown and during the cruelly hot summer 2 years ago. Also no noisy foot stummping above my head or noise from below other than our own, especially as I have got older I really appreciate a bit of quiet.

I’d just add on share of freehold flats that there might be some where owners drag their feet about repairs and it’s more problematic in conversions when 2-3 try to manage themselves and don’t appoint a management company. In larger blocks, I’ve seen brilliant examples of share of freehold where service charge is reasonable and the property beautifully maintained. There’s generally a management company that holds an annual meeting for the flat owners when they vote on different things and they get done.

And service charges can go up and down depending on works required and the sinking fund available.

For me it's the noise that puts off living in flats again - either other people grumbling about the inevitable noise of children (and the stress that comes with neighbours finding you annoying), or the noise from other people that you have no control other.

Thank you very much all of you as you have given me some really comprehensive advice which is really helpful.

To answer a few questions: I’m in the southeast with children aged 6 and 11. Take the point that we wouldn’t be able to have things like paddling pool, trampoline etc in a garden which is a downside of an apartment.
My ideal would be a Victorian conversion as someone mentioned but unfortunately I need 3 bedrooms and they would be very few and far between as well as out of budget. To give an idea, budget for me would be £410k ish and even then that’s quite low for a 3 bed apartment or a very small terrace (out of town) where I am.
Apartments here are generally small purpose built blocks, maybe 3 storeys/8-12 apartments in each.

Houses yes, could extend out the back and add value. Would I want to on the type of house available to me? I’m not sure, as there’s a definite ceiling price due to location.

Service charge - this concerns me a bit as how much can this be argued against if it keeps being increased hugely? (as a leaseholder).

Victorian house converted into a 3 bed apartment with own garden would be perfect.

I would actually say flats are great - I grew up in one, and when we moved to a house, I never used the garden anyway as by that age I wanted to go to the park with my friends.

I live in a flat now and have found the bonuses are:
-in town centre and near train station
-neighbours are all similar (professional young couples) and we get on really well and meet up, whereas all of the neighbours my parents had in houses were, without exception, old farts that had lived there all their lives
-any building/garden works is done for you
-Always warm because of other people's heating
-Less cleaning, no stairs to hoover
-Very little noise (it's a purpose build block), never heard upstairs, and no screaming kids in gardens

Just for another perspective :) I find the "kids need a garden!!!" attitude really weird and British. When I was a kid I never went into the garden, wasn't interested in it, it was more hard work for parents. Lots of people abroad live in flats all their lives, their kids have turned out fine.....

What is an average/reasonable service charge on a standard block of flats - no concierge/lift/gym etc - with say 10 apartments in a purpose built block with communal garden? (Or is this a stupid question?)

If you go for a flat I have one word to say to you.... balcony.
If lockdown has taught me anything it's that all flats should have balconies. They may be small (usually) but they are a tiny patch of outdoor space that is yours and yours only.
I wish my flat had one.

For service charge on a standard block without any luxuries, I’d expect 1200-1800 a year for a two bed. I’ve got less experience with 3 beds but probably 1500-2000? You’d need your solicitor to check the schedule of works and the size of sinking fund. It does happen that if now much has been done or there’s little contingency, you might be asked to come up with 3k or even more in a few months for a major repair.

So it’s better to choose somewhere with a slightly higher charge provided that it translates into great maintenance and healthy reserves.

Thanks @JoJoSM2

I have lived in a Victorian townhouse converted into separate flats and I have to say it wasn't a pleasant experience, mainly because of the noise. You could hear everything, people walking up and down the stairs to get to their flats, people listening to music, having sex in the middle of the day.. I think I saw a post here very recently about someone complaining their upstairs neighbour having hard floors and the noise being unbearable. For this reason if I was to live in a flat again I would choose top floor, but of course that would mean no garden.

Also, I think in those sort of places you may have to pay your share of things like roof repair even if it wasn't actually your roof if you live in the ground floor if you see what I mean. Not sure though as I never owned a flat conversion.

No way In hell would I deal with a managing agent again unless i had to- lease hold is a sure fire way to burn money. All it takes is for some jobs worth to decide they haven’t “done up” the communal areas in the last 6 years and you get a 5k bill. They never bother to haggle the price of buildings insurance- why would they, it’s never their money. Nope, it’s a house al the way for me.

Interesting points. Thanks everyone.
And in terms of location, driving to school each day would be an absolute pain (I did it for 6 months and hated it!) but some of you would prefer that and living in a small house, over an apartment within walking distance of school/everything else?
Where should my compromises be?? Thank you!

@blossomsarepretty thanks - I hadn’t considered those kinds of things

The service charge on my 1 bed flat is £1600 a year. I think I lucked out here as it's a new build, in a well maintained, smallish block, and has a lift. A lot of the new builds have hefty charges, often charging circa £3k a year.

New builts or quite recent blocks are v quiet, quieter than a terrace or semi. Often, your not allowed wooden or other potentially noisy floors either. Victorian conversions can be very noisy.

If I had a similar problem to yours, I’d probably feel a house is a safer bet + our family uses the garden a lot (adults too). Maybe if you go with a fixer upper or one that needs a loft conversion to create bed 3, you’ll be able to get a more convenient location?

Would you consider changing schools so the kids can still walk from new location? Or can they cycle?

Hopefully there won’t be further lockdowns, but I think it’s a distinct possibility and I think private outside space becomes more important in that situation (to everyone, I think, not just kids!). Sorry to be gloomy but something to consider, perhaps.

Lots of friends in small houses/flats are now considering moving to get more space, as WFH becomes more common.

Fixer uppers here are like gold dust, and in my location still £550k + for a 3 bed terraced house, that needs work, with permit parking . The last local house that needed work was sold before it even came to market so I’ve spoken to estate agents around here and they’ve said that my budget isn’t enough for a house that’s central.

Take your point on lockdown for most families. For us, we are currently in a 3 double bedroom, 2 bathroom semi detached house with a 360 garden which we’ve been in for just over a year. The children probably average playing in the garden around once per month (usually forced by me to “make the most of the garden”) and that’s the same through lockdown. I work from home 2-3 days per week. We moved here from an apartment as I thought the children needed “a family home” and a larger garden. Really it’s just a load more work for me which isn’t outweighed by the benefit for them (as they don’t use the garden) and a lot more money I’ve wasted on more space that isn’t being used.

BUT, saying all that - those decisions to move to houses/apartments were easier knowing that if it didn’t work out, then I could easily rent somewhere else. Now that I’m buying, although I prefer the low maintenance of a purpose built apartment, I don’t want to regret it over buying a house, but neither do I want to regret buying a house in an inconvenient location!

@Hipposandrhinos wouldn’t change their school. The reason we live in this place is because of the outstanding primary and secondary and eldest has a place in the secondary now which I’m feeling very grateful for, even moreso as lots of school friends who applied unfortunately didn’t get a place.

I nearly bought a flat last time I was in the market OP- service charge was 1800 a year. My friend then said £150 a month- when she broke it down like that, I realised I prefer a house and to save that extra a month.

@Changemyname08 the problem with Victorian Conversions is that though you often get a garden, there are problems with soundproofing. Personally, I bought a purpose built flat where the freehold is owned by the residents, and my DH is a director of the management company. They appoint a managing agent to do the day to day running of the block and communal gardens, arrange repairs, chase people to pay service charges, manage sink fund etc etc etc. I have come to realize this is essential as most people don't have that much spare time to do all this, but appointing a third party would only be possible if there were more flats (my development has 34 flats).

In victorian conversions, what would probably happen is that repairs/essential maintenance would be on an ad hoc basis and there would probably no sink fund (you have to save for it). Also if the other person is nice, it would be a dream but if the other person isn't there would be endless disputes.