Help! Architect costs

[FlamedToACrisp]

We've had a first meeting with an architect. He's sent us a contract - but we've no idea if his prices are cheap or dear! We'd appreciate some MN opinions...

Measured survey and sketch design: £500

Prepare and submit planning application: £800 + council fee + £50phr for extra bits

Obtain Building Regs approval/full construction plans: £750 + fee to council. It also says: "You should also budget for a Structural Engineer at this stage - say £2000 to design the new structural elements and prove the foundations" (wtf? why isn't the architect designing them?)

Obtain 3 competitive tenders: £500, and administer the building contract: 5% of Contract Sum invoiced monthly with Architect's Certificates.

He is a RIBA, but isn't registered for VAT - is that normal or a bad sign?

Feeling a bit daunted at the fact we're struggling already, but I said to DH, "Don't worry: Mumsnet will know!"

So for our single storey extension we paid 600 (incl VAT) + stabdard council planning fee. Plans prepared by a structural engineer, not architect but we weren't knocking down any walls and keeping the structural opening

Can't you use the plans and get tenders yourself rather than getting the architect to do it? 5% of build cost would be a lot!

I had various quotes, one was around £6000 all in, another was 10% of the build cost + initial £1200 feasibility survey and one that was around £4000 with council fees on top.

An architect and structural engineer do completely different jobs. Our structural engineer was £1800.

Rates sound about right for where I am in London but definitely don't get the architect to get you quotes or project manage the work! In my experience they are all useless at this. You are better off getting quotes yourself from the likes of checkatrade and using the project manager the builders company provide.

Those prices don't look bad. You don't have to take up all of those services. They reflect different Riba stages. Lots of people would go up to and including building regs regs and then take it forward themselves with a builder.

Not Vat registered isn't bad news. They just aren't taking in enough money to go over the Vat threshold. It means you don't have a pay VAT.

Is it normal to haggle, or are the fees a take-it-or-leave-it thing?

I'd read that an architect can be 10% of the projected build/extension cost! No idea if this is the norm of not (Sth East) but seems alot to me.

You don't sound convinced by the architect. Why don't you speak to some others if you're not feeling it. Also get an idea of what others charge.

Have you looked at any designs or work done by this architect. Do you like them?

Im not a fan of architects unless you are doing something that really requires one. Incentivising them to increase your costs by paying them a % of the build is something that rarely works out well for the financially constrained. Full service building company will offer project management and relationships with structural engineers. For the planning & building regs a draftsman will do for basic extensions, lofts etc. So unless you have a really 'architectural' project in mind, there are cheaper and more realistic methods. A good building company given a budget to work to will suffice for most.

It all depends on what you want to have done and how much involvement you want to have in the process.

I find with architects, you give them a budget and they provide you with amazing designs but the moment you get a builder round to quote it costs way more than you were lead to believe. Then you have to make adjustments and compromises and you end up disappointed thinking what you could have had because you would have never dreamed of x,y or z in the first place.

If is a standard extension best to meet with a couple of builders who will give you ball park figures and use the local planing portal to see what has been approved locally and take the elements that you like. Then find a structural engineer to do all your drawings.

If you want something different / a bit special then architect all the way.

Structural engineer is always in addition to the architect.

Ours was about £8k, but our build is over £500k

Our architect isn’t having anything to do with build.

We had 2 quotes recently for drawings for single story extension. One quoted 2k for initial survey, design, planning drawings and building regs drawings. Excludes structural surveyer and planning app fees/building reg fees.

The other was 1.4k for basically the same. Neither include VAT.

Neither appear to actually be qualified architects on further inspection, more experienced Autocad users and experienced at applying for planning permission. They advertiser themselves as 'architectural services.' Not sure if this is a good thing or not. They get a lot of work around where we live though.

Our architect has cost £1400 and our structural engineer was £500. We’ve obviously also had to pay for planning and building regs. Our build is around £80k and we’re in the East of England.
I’d probably have a chat with another architect, like you’d get quotes for a builder etc.

For a single storey with a small wrap around (back of house wrapping half way down side of house) we paid architect about £2200. That included first set of drawings and redesigns until we were happy with plan, submission for planning permission, them chasing the planning permission, Second set of drawings with all the technical details on for builder, and beam calculations (they were qualified to do this too) . East Midlands area.

@nomdeguerrrr

You don't sound convinced by the architect. Why don't you speak to some others if you're not feeling it. Also get an idea of what others charge.

Have you looked at any designs or work done by this architect. Do you like them?

I'm not convinced, tbh. I liked the projects on his website, and he appears to be a one-man business, so I presume they're his work. It was important to me to get someone who could buy into the idea that a traditional house needs a traditional-looking extension that looks like part of the house, not a massive glass slab or strange wooden hut.

When he arrived, he came with several other people, including his wife (why?) and a friend who went off shopping (not v professional!). His 'assistant' (introduced only by his first name (so possibly not a professional) went round with me and made notes, but the architect himself couldn't look around the house as he's a wheelchair user and the doorways were too small. He didn't even get out of the car and look at the outside of the house. He also spoke slurringly, so I couldn't really understand him and his assistant had to repeat what he'd said. We want the extension wheelchair-friendly and thought he might be a good choice for that reason, but although I'm quite happy he can draw up the designs etc., I just don't feel confident that he'd notice if the builders weren't doing the job right - he won't be able to examine the building work. But would he do that anyway, or would that be a structural engineer?

As far as I know, you'd have to pay the extra if you want him to oversee the project. Our builders are a reasonable size company and they have a project manager who is in charge of each client's build (ours also rolls up his sleeves and does work but he's in charge).

Structural engineers do the boring bit, I think. They calculate how many steel beams are needed for the job for example. The architects do the fun design bit.

I think you need to shop around more!

Don’t be put off by people not being vat registered- they can still be a fully legitimate company.

I would recommend having some others round for costs to see if one is more within your budget. It’s important you feel confident with who you’re working with so make sure of that. I have my own interiors company and it 100% has to be a good fit for myself and my clients in order to work together. I know immediately if a potential client is going to be someone I want to work with. It’s so personal working on someone’s home that it has to be a good match all round.

I do find it rather insulting when people try to haggle on price. You’re paying for expertise, someone else’s time and they too have bills to pay. You either have budget or not, if you don’t have it at the moment then wait until you do. Sometimes I don’t think people realise how time consuming it can be within design. If the price was going to be less it would’ve been.

It is difficult to comment without knowing exactly what the architect is drawing up plans for? Ie a single storey extension or a new annex or even a whole house.

We spent £2000 on the architect and £400 for the structural engineer. There are a lot of structural work in ours with foundations reinforced. That price was near the top end for what we had done. Neighbour had plans drawn for £1200 using an architectural technician.which was fine

Be aware a number of architect practices have an architect and the accreditation but employ technicians so you can end up paying top price to have a technician do the work

I think you speak to more architects and see if you find one you feel a connection with and who you are confident are in tune with the aesthetic you want. An architect should come up with design options which suit your lifestyle that you wouldn't have thought of yourself.

this is a lot less then we're paying! But we're doing several extensions and a complete reconfiguration/ renovation of our house (in the south east). I went with ours because they're very budget driven, brilliantly creative and have a background in the building trade. We'll be using them throughout the whole process because they'll be a great deal more experienced and efficient at managing builders than we would be.

It's been totally worth the expense so far. All this being said, if we were doing a bog-standard side return type extension or anything else run of the mill I would have gone for one of the cheaper, more run of the mill architects. Or possibly just gone directly to the structural engineers. I think we met/ considered 6 or 7 architects before finding ones we truly felt were the right fit.