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Are prices shooting up where you are?

618 replies

Focusanddetermination · 13/07/2020 21:47

Just that really. I'm in a small Midlands town, have a high amount of activity and prices shooting up in the past few weeks even.

I thought people would be more hesitant with a looming recession, but it's almost the opposite.

OP posts:
Greenhats10 · 24/07/2020 16:44

@@Greenhats10 - was anyone rushing out to pay 700k for a two-bed flat really restricted by the stamp duty - god only knows. It's not like we're talking about people buying up three-bed houses that they intend to live in for the rest of their lives.

Lightscribe · 24/07/2020 16:46

[quote Greenhats10]@Lightscribe - agreed but in theory, fixing your interest rate for say 10 years with high inflation is not such a bad thing when it comes to debt. The problem, of course, is that everything else is also expensive but inflation is pretty good at eating away at the debt (assuming that your interest rates are fixed)[/quote]
Exactly. But what happens to interest rates in a high inflation environment? They have to rise to keep inflation from running into hyperinflation. Thats why I say that a 10 year fix at current rates with the ability to overpay is optimum. First comes deflation however (where we are now) with the constriction on the economy. Inflation is next.

House prices have already been inflated in this cycle however and a anchored down by the affordability and the banks willingness to lend. Average London and SE prices peaked some time ago. See for yourself on the charts.

propertydata.co.uk/charts/house-prices

This time inflation loving assets like precious metals, infrastructure, agriculture and green energy will be the sectors that will rise.

Viviennemary · 24/07/2020 16:47

I read the beginning of an article in the Telegraph today. The rest was behind a paywall. It said building society surveyors were downvaluing houses and a 10-15% drop is on the cards. Doesn't look like it from house prices I've seen. Unless big storm coming. I was expecting prices to drop by now but they seem to have gone up. Confused

Desiringonlychild · 24/07/2020 16:52

@Greenhats10 That is probably just Muswell Hill/Highgate. To be fair,these people's jobs are probably not affected by covid.

Greenhats10 · 24/07/2020 16:55

@Desiringonlychild - I know and am very annoyed by that Grin

@Lightscribe - yes but 10year fixed rates are ok at moment. I wouldnt want to buy something right now and assume that I can flip it in three years time and make a profit.

Lightscribe · 24/07/2020 17:01

[quote Greenhats10]@Desiringonlychild - I know and am very annoyed by that Grin

@Lightscribe - yes but 10year fixed rates are ok at moment. I wouldnt want to buy something right now and assume that I can flip it in three years time and make a profit.[/quote]
Yes 10 year fixes are precisely that. Fixed for 10 years, if you can buy a sensibly priced house, with a secure job and can pay off the majority of the debt in that time, by all means go for it.

10 year fixes at these current rates will not be available going forward and will have a very strict lending criteria. It's going to be a trade off eventually between a drop in property values and the ability to get a long term low rate fixed mortgage. Those on 2 year fixes may struggle when coming to renew in years to come.

Lightscribe · 24/07/2020 17:08

@Viviennemary

I read the beginning of an article in the Telegraph today. The rest was behind a paywall. It said building society surveyors were downvaluing houses and a 10-15% drop is on the cards. Doesn't look like it from house prices I've seen. Unless big storm coming. I was expecting prices to drop by now but they seem to have gone up. Confused
www.telegraph.co.uk/property/uk/property-purchases-collapse-surveyors-issue-lower-house-price/

I have access so I'll post the article for you

Property purchases collapse as surveyors issue lower house price valuations
Some home valuations have been £20,000 lower than expected

By
Adam Williams
24 July 2020 • 5:00am
Home buyers and sellers have been left in limbo as surveyors have dramatically reduced property valuations in the aftermath of the coronavirus crisis.

With house prices falling in many areas and transaction levels down, surveyors have started to issue more cautious estimates amid fears that properties could be overvalued. A lack of post-Covid housing market data has contributed to this issue, experts said.

If the valuation is significantly lower than the agreed sales price, this can cause mortgage lenders to withdraw offers, and sales to fall apart. This phenomenon is known as a “down-valuation” and occurs when a bank’s surveyor values a property.

Estate agents and mortgage brokers have reported cases where down-valuations have knocked tens of thousands of pounds off a property’s price. In one instance, a surveyor valued a property at £300,000 less than the agreed sale price.

Mortgage lenders can then withdraw offers if they believe falling house prices will cause the borrower to quickly plunge into negative equity. They may also lower the mortgage offer, leaving the buyer to make up the difference with cash.

Existing homeowners trying to remortgage their loan to a cheaper deal with another bank can also find down-valuations an issue.

Industry experts said lack of data was posing a major problem for surveyors, many of whom have been unable to visit properties in person.

Social distancing measures have caused the number of physical valuations to fall. Instead, surveyors have relied on computer models to determine house prices without visiting a property. However, as transactions have slumped in recent months, there is far less reliable data for valuers to base their decisions on.

There are generally between 90,000 and 100,000 property transactions in Britain in a typical month, but this figure slumped to 41,960 in April.

Transaction levels rebounded to 63,250 in June, but many of these sales were agreed before the crisis hit. Given that it takes months to complete a purchase, there are fears that these figures do not fully reflect recent house price falls. The Government’s own index has also been suspended since March.

Jonathan Harris of Forensic Property Finance, a mortgage broker, said he saw a home down-valued from £1.4m to £1.1m last month, a drop of 21pc. Mr Harris said the surveyor gave no justification, but he understood the drop was due to concerns about the market.

Jiten Varsani of London Money, another broker, said he had seen a home valued at £340,000 when a sale price of £360,000 had been agreed. He said that over-reliance on computer models could lead to properties being wrongly valued.

“My worry about automated valuation is that, without physically seeing a property, you might be comparing one to another down the road that is the same size but in exceptionally poor condition,” he said.

Jeremy Leaf, a London estate agent, said it was not uncommon to see down-valuations of 5pc.

marysuzairn · 24/07/2020 17:19

Sorry but that's bs about needing to pay it back, it will be paid back but over decades while it's inflated away. Much like the war debt. There's no rush to repay it and it will never be paid back in real terms.

Viviennemary · 24/07/2020 17:22

Thanks Lightscribe. I know some first time buyers and I said hang on but maybe that isn't a good idea. It's all very up in the air.

Lightscribe · 24/07/2020 17:25

@marysuzairn

Sorry but that's bs about needing to pay it back, it will be paid back but over decades while it's inflated away. Much like the war debt. There's no rush to repay it and it will never be paid back in real terms.
Again if you don't understand what gilts are please just do some research. Deficit and national debt are two different things.
ChocoTrio · 24/07/2020 18:03

@Desiringonlychild "A lot of property wealth is also leaving London which could be interesting for potential London buyers. "

Do you mean people are selling in London to buy elsewhere? So, like, spreading the wealth?

Lightscribe · 24/07/2020 18:11

[quote ChocoTrio]@Desiringonlychild "A lot of property wealth is also leaving London which could be interesting for potential London buyers. "

Do you mean people are selling in London to buy elsewhere? So, like, spreading the wealth?[/quote]
No not spreading the wealth as such, but pushing up the prices in the area out of the reach of local people on local salaries.

Hence London prime peak was 2014 and greater London and SE have stalled for some years (look at the data I previously linked above), but other areas rippling out kept rising keeping the national average rising. That had changed monthly before COVID, it was only last month it effected the annual total which spurred on the stamp duty prop.

Viviennemary · 24/07/2020 18:17

Yes. Somebody told DH there will be a mass exodus from big cities. That makes sense but I'll believe it when I see it. But if nothing is open what's the point of living centrally especially if you work from home.

Lightscribe · 24/07/2020 18:22

@Viviennemary

Yes. Somebody told DH there will be a mass exodus from big cities. That makes sense but I'll believe it when I see it. But if nothing is open what's the point of living centrally especially if you work from home.
Which in turn will mean a lot of HMO and BTL property coming onto the market. If you don't require office blocks you don't require the service personnel to maintain it and the surrounding coffee/sandwich/restaurants staff relying on the custom who will mainly be renting those types of properties.
Desiringonlychild · 24/07/2020 18:27

@ChocoTrio a lot of people are moving outside London to get larger homes given they may no longer need to commute and pay expensive rail season tickets.

This is good for my DH who is a native Londoner and who doesn't want to leave. As for me, when I applied for uni, I only applied to UCL, LSe and Kings so that gives you an idea of how much I like London.
We would want to stay in London irrespective of jobs and even if our property is worth less, the London market has also gone down

Desiringonlychild · 24/07/2020 18:29

@Viviennemary a lot of things are open. Last weekend, I went to Santorini Restaurant in Bayswater (had the whole Restaurant to ourselves), had a wander in Kensington palace gardens and shopped in Kensington high Street. People who love London would stay but a lot of people don't and only stay here for jobs.

Smallgoon · 24/07/2020 19:11

And your view is load yourself up to the eyeballs in debt and worry about it later?

@Lightscribe

Nobody in this thread had suggested this. Quite the contrary actually.

Smallgoon · 24/07/2020 19:54

A lot of property wealth is also leaving London which could be interesting for potential London buyers. Maybe the £800k house would be £600-700k, i find that worth waiting for but of course 700K is still a lot for a house and not everyone can affor dit.

Not sure how this makes a difference. Those selling will still want a good price for their property.

Desiringonlychild · 24/07/2020 20:11

@Smallgoon THose selling would want a good price but there would be fewer people willing to pay such money for a small 3 bedroom terraced house. Pre covid, a lot of jobs were tied to London and moving further out would have entailed two lengthy and expensive commutes, which pose logistic difficulties for those with young children (most day care centres/after school clubs end at 6 pm which can be quite tough if your work ends at 5 pm and your commute is longer than at hour). So a lot of people sacrificed space so they could get home to spend time with their children at a sensible time.

If you can work from home most of the time, a long commute is feasible. i personally bought my London flat at the time when 40% of London based FTB were buying outside London and BTL landlords were being squeezed by tax rises- hence it was 15% down from the 2015 peak.

ChocoTrio · 24/07/2020 20:26

@Lightscribe

Also, some people have just been stepping sideways rather than going up the ladder as such. Covid has changed people's priorities and many maybe buying with a view to future proof too. So maybe just getting a bigger property for a similar price, but maybe a different area.

marysuzairn · 24/07/2020 21:58

@Lightscribe no offense or anything, but I'm probably on a level higher with my knowledge.

All this printing of money will trash cash and go into assets. That's why house prices won't fall. People said in the last recession they will crash and you know what I said they would increase and they did 70% in London.

Borrow as much as you can afford and will be able to service and you can't go wrong. I've literally made millions from a very modest portfolio.

Lightscribe · 24/07/2020 22:19

[quote marysuzairn]@Lightscribe no offense or anything, but I'm probably on a level higher with my knowledge.

All this printing of money will trash cash and go into assets. That's why house prices won't fall. People said in the last recession they will crash and you know what I said they would increase and they did 70% in London.

Borrow as much as you can afford and will be able to service and you can't go wrong. I've literally made millions from a very modest portfolio.[/quote]
I'm not even going to entertain this comment.

Smallgoon · 24/07/2020 22:47

This thread would be much more informative if MNers didn't resort to "I know better than you for xy reasons..."

Can we just have sensible debate without people having a superiority complex?

Smallgoon · 24/07/2020 22:50

@Desiringonlychild Fair point. I personally can't see a 20% reduction on prices in London. Then again, there are other factors to consider. A lot of properties enter the market at such silly, inflated prices in the first place...

The fact that there are people in this thread claiming that prices have increased since Covid is evidence enough at how deluded some sellers/agents are.

ChocoTrio · 24/07/2020 22:50

@Smallgoon

This thread has been hilarious at times lol!