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Advice needed - Repointing 100year old garden wall

24 replies

AnxiousandExcited · 12/07/2020 13:51

I've never pointed/repointed before, I have no building experience but also no funds, so i got myself some lime mortar in two big sacks (lime because its an old wall, i've done my research), a pointed trowel that i'm not sure is good, a bucket, water etc. The wall is in pretty bad shape. I've had some workmen powerwash it so the old loose stuff is out for a while now, it's still holding up but i need to repoint this week whilst the weather is good.
So i'm on mumsnet, procrastinating, because i am really quite nervous at taking this on myself. I'm not worried that the wall collapse - in a way i wish it would :) - just that i will make a huge mess, have all the wrong tools and waste tons of energy on not much.
Any advice?

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SewingWaspish · 12/07/2020 14:04

You've got the right tools and the right mortar. Just go for it. You can take your time with lime mortar, what have you got to lose? You're not going to make it any worse!

BalanceGreen · 12/07/2020 14:13

We've started doing ours. It's a slow process, but quite satisfying. The lime doesn't go off quickly so you can take a bit of time to practise getting it in. We had some of the thin flat tools to tamp it all down, a brush to hit it with (DP said this was traditional although I prefer the 'concave' look and left hessian over it to damp down each day.

Mix up a small amount and give it a go.

If you have a nice ground beneath, cover that - we got stains on tarmac when washing off dropped bits.

AnxiousandExcited · 12/07/2020 15:54

Well, I did some! I found it lots of fun though my wrists are a bit achy. I reckon that at the speed i'm doing, the wall will take about 50 hours, and if i do an hour a day, that's 'only' almost two months. So I might up the amount i do each day, and hopefully i will get quicker too. Making the most of this dry weather!

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PigletJohn · 12/07/2020 16:01

I haven't used one myself, but the builders put an inexperienced lad on the job using a mortar gun which injects the soft mortar into the gap, and them you press and smooth it. Do the perps first.

You can get a cranked tool to press it in and iron the joint. This is very quick in the horizontal joints after you have done the perps.

Start at the top of the wall, obv.

BubblegumFactory · 12/07/2020 22:30

Remember to look after your hands - limi mortar can be tough on your skin!

AnxiousandExcited · 13/07/2020 09:22

@pigletjohn I saw that tool advertised. I think i will invest... why do you say start at the top? the advice i was given was because it is a garden wall with no damp course i should start at the bottom, which takes longer to cure?

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PigletJohn · 13/07/2020 10:15

If you start at the top, your drips and spillages will not spoil the parts you have already perfected.

Like painting.

AnxiousandExcited · 13/07/2020 12:26

Oh, that doesn't really apply to this wall... I need to post a picture! Parts of bricks missing, some bricks stick out, others are quite deeply recessed, some gaps are about 1mm and others are more like 150mm, the top stones (capstones?) are not straight, some of it has obviously been repointed at one point, other places have almost no mortar left at all... It's a mess, and repointing won't help that!
I did another hour last night, and have done about 2m2...

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AnxiousandExcited · 13/07/2020 15:31

@MariaDingbat Thanks, that is a good guide. I've been referring to
www.instructables.com/id/Repointing-pre-1920-Brick-in-a-historic-home/ which is good too.But I think my wall is in worse shape - and here are some pictures, finally!

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AnxiousandExcited · 13/07/2020 15:34

Whoops, here are the pics

Advice needed - Repointing 100year old garden wall
Advice needed - Repointing 100year old garden wall
Advice needed - Repointing 100year old garden wall
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MariaDingbat · 13/07/2020 15:38

You probably don't want to hear this but I'd go over the whole wall a couple of times with a stiff brush to get the loose paint off before repointing otherwise you run the risk of the mortar not getting a proper key and falling out as it dries. Sorry!

It's a big job, fair play for doing it right.

CatherinedeBourgh · 13/07/2020 15:43

Do make sure the wall is nicely wet each day before you start working on it, or your mortar will dry out too fast and not set properly

PigletJohn · 13/07/2020 17:27

Are you sure that is lime mortar? It looks like sand and cement to me. Can you scrape it out with the handle of a teaspoon?

BustPipes · 13/07/2020 18:35

Kudos OP for starting on this job.

We have a wall in a similar condition, and I'm hoping if we ignore it, it'll go away (and be miraculously replaced by a similar wall that's straight and perfectly pointed).

AnxiousandExcited · 13/07/2020 22:03

This is the wall before i have worked on it, i have no idea what the mortar is made of! But the house is 120 years old so i presume it's lime mortar.
The bit that used to have a connecting wall (you can see it on the second photo) was enclosing an outdoor toilet, it actually has a tree root/branch growing right through the middle of the wall, from some mystery tree that is no longer there - see attached photos, tree part circled in red. It was covered in paint so i had no idea it was there until I cleaned the paint away as much as i could - it was definitely surprising to find wood in there! The other side of the wall was re-pointed at one point so is in better shape and you can't really see the wood.
Anyway, the whole wall is about 6 times the section i photographed. I did try to remove as much paint as possible with the help of professionals, but if i remove any more paint it will crack the brick, which is at the moment very delicate. After i repoint, i must soak the bricks and then seal them, which hopefully will help stop them crumbling even further.
I haven't done any more due to the rain today, and my husband was in bed with a headache (no, not corona) so I didn't get any breaks from homeschooling/looking after my boys to keep going. Not sure if i should drag myself outside as soon as the house goes quiet to do some more or just settle on the computer for a while? Last night i worked for a bit in the dark (only with light from the window) - it was peaceful but much harder!
I'm a bit overwhelmed, truthfully. Sorry about the long post - thanks for reading, and all your comments, advice and encouragement!

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MariaDingbat · 16/07/2020 09:06

You're doing a great job and the wall with thank you for using lime. It's labour intensive but I find it quite mediative once you get into it. Don't try to do the whole thing at once, just aim for whatever you can get done in an hour. Then try to do the same the next day.

It's hard to tell but it looks like the timber might have been something structural built into the wall rather than a natural branch invading it. I'd leave it be, otherwise you need to replace where it was with brick slips.

My advice would be not to use a sealant on the wall. They are generally useless and not recommended for use in conservation projects. At best they do nothing expect waste your money, at worst they stop moisture escaping the bricks and can lead to spalling.

AnxiousandExcited · 20/07/2020 00:45

thanks.
I haven't done more yet but i am still hoping to get back at it. I will be disappointed if i have to get a workman in!
Can anyone else give me their opinions on using a sealant? Conventional opinion seems to be that it is vital, and the wall is definitely mossy and 'growing' in some places...

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BalanceGreen · 20/07/2020 10:34

The wall we've been doing is actually part of the house - we had to remove an awful damp-causing textured coating. There is no way we'll be adding anything else that might compromise the brickwork more; blocking the 'breathability' seems to be the main cause of our issues.

Bluntness100 · 20/07/2020 10:39

I’d get the gun, and tool, as per piglet johns instruction, it is likely quicker, and just crack on. Then I’d paint it.

AnxiousandExcited · 20/07/2020 13:38

I think my main problem is that with two mischevious little boys (not including the baby), as long as i am doing work out there the yard is out of bounds, and with almost no school because of Covid... not good. But i think i will try to get on with it myself.
I will let you know how it's going, and what i do about sealing - or not sealing - it!

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Cascade220 · 20/07/2020 14:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CatherinedeBourgh · 20/07/2020 14:31

I wouldn’t seal

AnxiousandExcited · 20/07/2020 15:13

Okay, i don't think i will seal it after all! Anyone want some sealant :) ?

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