Builders reluctant to give a breakdown of quote

[mothergooseinnorthwest]

Hi all,

Just wonders if that’s your experience as well.

We are getting estimates and quotes from builders. I have politely asked everyone to give us a breakdown and most of them said no problem. But all I got is a list of jobs and a total number.

I emailed two builders who did a long list of jobs for a breakdown and they both ignored that talked about other things in their reply.

I understand they want to protect some profits but I find it so hard to discuss quotes with them when it is just one single number.

Did you get a breakdown for your extension project? What does it look like? Thanks.

We are in the process of starting a build. Getting the quotes has been a nightmare. It's like nobody wants the job. It's quite a big job, so plenty of money to be made but trying to get anyone to phone or email you back is horrendous.

We did however eventually get 3 proper quotes and each one was broken down with rough costs of what to allow for bathrooms, kitchen and decorating as well as the building work. One even broke his down, to the last screw.

We chose which builder to go ahead with and have paid a 10% deposit to secure a slot with them for the work. We have then been given a detailed breakdown of what work to expect to be done by when and how much we need to pay once certain bits are completed. Then the final payment is to be made once we are happy everything is complete.

@FinallyHere yes, I am frustrated how vague the builders formal quote is. It is reasonable (not the lowest but within budget) but is it because it didn’t include as much as the other quote? I think I have enough information in the email I sent but that’s no confirmation he didn’t miss anything. All advice I got that I think is sensible is to be clear and specific so it is not open to interpretation.

It is nice to have someone you used and can trust. We have an electrician we regularly use. We don’t even ask him to quote jobs anymore, just pays what he says after he is done and it has always been reasonable.

I would just flag the following items as having massive cost variations:-

• bifold / sliding patio doors (Brand variations are huge)
• porcelain floor tiles
• kitchen units
• Electric cooker hobs- can affect required CAT 3-5 big £££ difference.
• Skylight windows
• GRP or felt roofing on flat roofs
• Spanish or South American slate roofing
• PVC or aluminium guttering

Do not forget a provision for groundworks, additional soakaways, patios etc.

@Username273451293445z thanks. That’s very helpful knowing I am not the only one thinking it is hard to get clear quotes.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I am sure we will find one who has the time for us. I don’t mind waiting for a good one. If anything, it gives us more to save up for better finishes.

Getting the quotes has been a nightmare. It's like nobody wants the job.

If they are good, they will have a pipeline of work, so doing quotes seems like less attractive than actually doing work. As PP mentions, once you know and trust people work you are less worried about the quote and more likely to give them the work.

At my own work I know about the value of being clear in specifications but work for smaller jobs (a quarter of a million but still relatively small job) is less straightforward.

@Kasparovski

I would just flag the following items as having massive cost variations:-

• bifold / sliding patio doors (Brand variations are huge)
• porcelain floor tiles
• kitchen units
• Electric cooker hobs- can affect required CAT 3-5 big £££ difference.
• Skylight windows
• GRP or felt roofing on flat roofs
• Spanish or South American slate roofing
• PVC or aluminium guttering

Do not forget a provision for groundworks, additional soakaways, patios etc.

That’s soo very useful, thanks. Will keep that in mind.

@mothergooseinnorthwest

Here is the list of items we were quoted against. I would also recommend checking contractors' reviews on mybuilder if they are listed on it and if you can't get a recommendation from a friend or family

prelims, plant protection, welfare, skips, scaffold
lay bankers boards
remove part of existing covered area and set aside tiles, prop structure, remove pavings
1000m footings
slab
soakaway 5metres
muckaway
footings pumped
telescopic ventillation
block and beam floor
superstructure
lintols, thermabates
floor joists
chipboard flooring
roof rafters, ridge, valley, purlinns
fascsia and soffit
insulation 300mm deep
felt, batten, tile, lead valleys
windows
prop kitchen wall, remove brick and block work
first floor knock through
beams
plasterboard
plastering
100mm insulation on 1200g DPM, 75mm screed
soakaway grates, wrap and shingle
rainwater black deep flow
electrics
heating and plumbing
decorations
external works

@weepingwillow22 thank you!

I managed to get some separate costs for the quote last night. Only £1900 was allowed for a three pane sliding door that is 2.5m x 4.5m. I can only guess what kind of quality it would be.

Thanks to all who replied.

Compass Glass / sunvista do nice slimline sliders OP, good luck

I'd get a detailed breakdown. Don't be pressured by the tradespeople in this thread telling you you're being unreasonable, because you are not.

You are asking for a lot of work (many hours to provide a comprehensive breakdown) for free. It's quite simple.

Also, generally speaking, good tradespeople have plenty of work all the time.

@smallgoon thanks for the support. I agree with you.

It’s not free work, it’s sales. It’s customer service. If anything I think my experience proves the point of doing it.
If a seasonable quote hides the price tag of £1900 for a bespoke size sliding door that should come easily 5k plus. More problems will happen along the way. They may think I was a pain for a day asking for clarification but it means I don’t have to look at a crappy door for years to come.

There is a reason why trustworthy websites advise it(I.e citizen’s advice).

You may not like it, but it’s part of the job and the ones who are willing to do these things will be more likely to get job should there be a recession in the months to come.

@mothergooseinnorthwest Precisely. I got stung by a builder I trusted, who insisted on not providing me with a detailed breakdown - the final costs ended up being significantly higher than the estimate he'd given, and I've soon learnt that I was over-charged. I'd realised my error when the project was 80% complete so it was too late to pull out. However, he had tried to lobby to do more work in my flat, which I would have offered him, but this time around I insisted I be given a detailed breakdown, given we'd gone £2k over on previous project. He refused and accused me of asking him to do this, so that I could try to find somebody willing to do the work cheaper - I wasn't. I just wanted to agree costs beforehand. However, his outburst was evidence enough that I right to part ways with him.

I'm always very weary now of tradespeople who are not upfront about costs, and choose to be vague, or only provide estimates.

It's not customer service. You are not a customer. You are someone who wants a quote for works, no doubt to compare quotes and find the cheapest option.

You are a potential customer but if they aren't short of customers then trades people are not going to take time out of their working hours (when they could presumably be earning £50+ per hour) to sit at a desk and make a quote for you.

I'm not saying this is wrong or right ... it's just the way it is.

@Smallgoon I am sorry to hear about your experience but like you said lesson learned.

I have got a couple of quotes for underfloor heating in case we had to source it ourselves. Two quotes came at 4k and 6k. Both had the same cost for material and one has 1k for labour while the other has 3k. Luckily, the polypipe website has a free estimate service which also confirms the same amount for material but labour should be around 1k in my region. Needless to say this little bit of breakdown tells me I am over quoted by one. Quotes will vary for different reasons. They may just price high because they are not interest or don’t need the work or don’t like the commute to my house. But we clients should be given enough information to make an informed decision.

Good luck with the other work you planned for your flat.

@Chicchicchicchiclana When you price a job don't you have to know the detail in order to get to the total cost? I don't understand how this is additional work unless you are just 'guestimating' the costs.

I personally would not be happy proceeding with a builder who wasn't able to provide clarification on what was and what wasn't included.

When we put out a tender for our build we receieved 3 quotes all of which were broken down and none of the builders had an issue with answering additional questions about their quotes. All 3 had a good reputation and were booked up for months so I don't agree with the view that good/popular builders don't bother with quotes.

Surely it is better for the builder ultimately too as there are no unwelcome surprises as the build progresses which means a happy client and one that is likely to provide positive references.

@Chicchicchicchiclana so you are saying people shouldn’t compare quotes? That just goes against about the most basic advice. At least three quotes anybody?

And no, if you read my previous posts, the one I asked to breakdown isn’t the cheapest.

If they are that busy, don’t come out to quote and be honest if the scope of the work doesn’t interest them. I have had builders say they are not taking on any more projects at the moment. I am okay with that.

I will keep in mind what you said, thanks. But I will ask for a breakdown that they can refuse and then I can walk away. At the end of day, I have my hard earned money to protect, though at a lower rate of £50+ /h

@mothergooseinnorthwest Also, just to add that I'm currently having my entire flat rewired. I emailed my electrician a brief which was essentially a line by line description of all works. He replied with a spreadsheet which included my description, and a price attached to each line. Perfect! It wasn't too much work for him, and I knew I wanted to hire him because he was transparent rather than providing an overall estimate without breakdown.

No. Of course I'm not saying people shouldn't compare quotes. But the builders know you are going to do this and you are asking them to do quite a bit of work (in terms of hours) with no guarantee that they are going to earn anything from you. So they might not fancy it if they have plenty of other work lined up. That's all.

@mothergooseinnorthwest....where I live builders allow for a build cost of around £160 to £220 sqft. £160 would be dead basic ....more or less a shell with services left loose for the customer to fit out themselves and in their own time. £220 would be a very high end home probably with smart home functions, high end finishes, built in cupboards etc. I think in all probability builders making a quote, look at the existing home quality, look at the size and complexity of your basic build, gauge the desired finish and initially provide a ball park figure to get a sense of customers who are serious / have the budget and those who don’t ....without investing a big load of time working out the nth detail.

The first thing a client should do when considering building work is to do some research into the items and materials that you are to spend money on..
So for example if you want a high end bathroom from a specialist shop, then this information should be relayed to the builder in order that they are able to give you a more detailed quote.
I don’t think that it is unreasonable for the client to ask for a general breakdown of costs.One would have thought that this would be part and parcel of the business. However, a detailed breakdown should not be expected until the builder actually takes on the job.

@areyoubeingserviced....agreed. But In reality, I think what a lot of people do is push the builder for an attractive fixed price and THEN try and shoe-horn lots of high end spec into that price....so slightly nicer socket switches, wallpapering instead of paint finish, more spot lights, extended ground works etc etc. People are often scared to specify because they fear it’s an invite to the builder to up the project price. I think it’s human nature unfortunately.

Just coming to the end of our extension. I also found the quoted very vague and was expecting an itemised breakdown. All I got was total figure, £x for kitchen, £y amount for electrics and £z for plumbing.

My builder was very casual about everything and I felt on tender hooks the whole time trying to guess areas which would come up greater than quote. I think some things did and some things didn't. But never charged me extra than the original quote. I asked at each stage though whether what I had chosen was within budget and how much extra for this and that.

Our quote for low spec (eg laminate floors) so I knew everything would be extra from the get go which was fine with me as I was able to guesstimate the additional £s I would need.

It's not a way I like to work, but I've learnt with building work you are kind at the mercy of the builder/suppliers. We were lucky- our builders were amazing

Realised I contradicted myself a bit there. Everything was within quoted budget unless I upgraded. I also checked how much was quoted for our sliding doors and they were massively underestimated in the original quote.

One thing I did find, was extra work added on after work has started (eg new wall, new garage door) was very expensive. I decided to ask later on depending what budget I had available at the time. Ended up going elsewhere for these items and wish I had asked for them to be included in the original quote