Can you have an electrical socket in the bathroom (for a washing machine) in England?

[ParentOfOne]

We want to put the washing machine in our bathroom, enclosed in a bespoke cabinet a carpenter will build for us.

I have asked two electricians for quotes and options on how to connect the appliance.

One said the washing machine can only be hard-wired, i.e. the power cable must go directly into the wall, and only an electrician can connect it or disconnect it. An ordinary plug and socket would be possible only if the socket were more than 3 metres away from the taps, which it isn't.

Another electrician said that, even if the distance is < 3 metres, I can still have ordinary sockets because the appliance would be enclosed in a cabinet.

Do you know who is right? Do you have any experience of this?

I would of course want to understand what is legal here, but am not so much worried about safety per se: sockets for appliances in the bathroom are very common in many countries, e.g. Germany, which I think have stricter construction and safety standards than England.

Thanks!

PS Note the question is NOT on the pros and cons of having a washing machine in the bathroom. That's a very subjective choice; it works for us because the bathroom is on the same floor as the bedrooms, and because it saves space in the kitchen, but of course it wouldn't work for everyone.

Your best bet is to look up building regs. It's much harder to put a socket in a bathroom with shower and/Or bath, than say just the downstairs loo with sink and toilet. If you have building regs to hand, you can look up the measurements and work it out for your configuration.

You can have a light switch in a bathroom/toilet so long as it’s not reachable from a basin/bath/shower. I think the regulation might state 1.5m away.

I can’t see why a socket wouldn’t be the same.

I like the sound of a wired switch ( the first electricians choice ) just for the extra safety.

Where would I find the regulations? Are they the same for the whole of the UK or is there a separate one for England?

I have found the BS7671 book on electrical regulations, but that's a book you have to buy, not something that can be looked up freely online.

This electrical.theiet.org/media/1084/2014_53_winter_wiring_matters.pdf

states that "230 V 13 A socket outlets are allowed, but only if they are at least 3 m horizontally from
the boundary of zone 1." but makes no mention of a closed cabinet making a difference. However, that's a document put together by some electricians, not the actual regs.

The problem with a wired switch is that it can become very expensive, tedious and time-consuming to replace the appliances. You would first need to call an electrician to disconnect it, then a plumber or the store installer to replace the old washing machine with the new one, then call the electrician again to reconnect it. You won't have to do this every year (hopefully), but, still...

I wonder why so many other countries don't have this rule. Given the number of electrical sockets I have seen right below kitchen sinks, I am not sure it's because the UK takes security more seriously. Maybe this made sense with older electrical equipment, not with the new one, but it hasn't been updated? Or maybe , culturally, everyone has the washing machine in the kitchen so no one ever thought about it?

The regulation in UK for a socket outlet is a minimum of three metres from a fixed bath or shower.

In UK there are hardly any bathrooms big enough to achieve that.

Putting it in a cabinet where the door can be opened does not change that. The cabinet would have to be screwed shut to prevent you opening it without tools.

The fixed flex connector is the best solution. I would prefer it to be controlled by a switched fused connection unit outside the bathroom. Next to the door is fine.

In a room that is not a bathroom, you could use an FCU with cable outlet, but I'd make it as difficult as possible for you to leap out of the bath and operate a switch with water running off your hands.

Flex outlet
Note that the flex enters at the bottom so that any water running down the flex will not run into the accessory.

Switched Fused Connection Unit
(this one has a neon indicator to remind you it is switched on)

Any circuit found in a bathroom must be RCD protected. This is usually done at the consumer unit "fuse box"). If your house is old you can get an RCD FCU.

Our plumber told us that the machine would have to be 3 metres from the bath/shower/sink so that there is no possibility of touching the machine whilst in contact with water.

There is a useful but rather sketchy guide to bathrooms here

I am looking for an up-to-date and accurate 18th Edition Bathroom Zones diagram. It is surprisingly difficult to find.

Zones are measured from the footprint of a fixed bath or shower tray (or radius of shower head in a wetroom with no tray). You will find a number of diagrams that measure from things that are not fixed baths or showers, for example washbasins, which is incorrect. I believe some of them emanate from a trade lighting source.

@Elisheva

your plumber is mistaken.

@PigletJohn, so you are saying the first electrician is right and the second is wrong?

Why is a socket not allowed but hardwiring the power cable is fine? Is the rationale that it is easier for water or vapour to enter a socket, even if it is some 40cm from the floor?

Does the switch have to be outside the bathroom or is it fine if it is in the meter cabinet downstairs? The easiest spot for a switch would probably be the kids' room next to the bathroom, but as they are still very small I'd be afraid of them switching it off just to play.

I have been warned about RCD protection and I am, in fact, having the whole fuse box changed because of that.

Lastly, may I ask if you are an electrician or plumber?

Thanks a lot!

We have our washing machine and dryer in a cupboard in the bathroom. The flexes go through the wall at the back and are plugged in in the adjoining room, if that makes sense. We've just had a comprehensive electrical check and were told it was fine.

I'm sure others will disagree do think it is an infuriating and silly rule. I have about six plug sockets under and near my kitchen sink. Admittedly I'm not naked and wet in my kitchen (!) but appliances and sinks are just as likely to flood in the kitchen as the bathroom. Why we have to wash our dirty laundry where we cook our food in this country I'll never know.

I did have a rented flat with a plug-in washing machine arrangement once and it was fantastic, but when the machine broke the delivery man refused to connect up the new one - a like for like replacement - as it was in the bathroom. (It was a minor triumph for me though because he stood back all pleased with himself and waiting for me to burst into tears or something and I just shrugged and did it myself.)

That should say 'I'm sure others will disagree but I do think...' !

I used to work in the building trades and the electricity industry (not as an electrician though in early years I studied and worked under the guidance of qualified electricians and my work was inspected). I am one of the few people who has read the Electricity Act, and Part P of the Building Regulations, and BS7671. I know how many requirements it contains, and at one time I memorised the requirements. I still know how many words long they are. It is shorter than you might think.

I have now found quite a good diagram of the Bathroom Zones, towards the end of this though it is an obsolete document and may contain out of date information.

You can put your washing machine "outside the zones" (see diagram)

Sockets are depricated in bathrooms because they encourage people to plug in radios, fan heaters, hair driers and toasters. You are aware of the results if one falls into a bath. Additionally, even the worlds finest plug and socket (which we have) is not safe to be used by people who have water running down their arms, or one foot in the bath.

I think outside (or over) the bathroom door is a good place for the switch. It is out of reach of children or idle fiddlers, but visible and accessible when required. You'll notice the Crabtree example I showed has a durable printed identification.

That was interesting to see the 'zones' that Piglet John posted a link to. I can see now that our washer and dryer are not within the zones, and in addition their plugs are not in the bathroom (it helps that there was just a partition wall between the bathroom and the next room).
I love having the machines upstairs in the bathroom. It makes far more sense and leaves more room in our kitchen.

@PigletJohn, thanks so much! As you can see from this thread, there is a lot of confusion and misinformation around, so input from someone who has been in the business is very much appreciated!

In your experience, if the appliances are hardwired, is an electrician the only one who can connect and disconnect them, or would a plumber or a store engineer be able to do that, too? Thinking of when these appliances need to be replaced.

I get it that you don't make the rules, and that my opinion is worth nothing and is not going to change anything, but avoiding sockets so you don't plug in appliances with wet hands doesn't, forgive the pun, hold much water as a rationale. That's a good argument to avoid putting a socket next to a mirror, so you don't plug in a hairdrier, but has nothing to do with washing machines and tumble driers, which are only connected when they are installed and disconnected when they have to be removed - methinks.

Are there more domestic accidents in German bathrooms than in British bathrooms because of this rule? Genuine, not rhetorical question.

I would love to know the answer to that! I live in France and have normal (French-probably the same as German?) plug sockets in both of my bathrooms. Washing machine and tumble dryer are plugged in there and hairdryer etc... I'm definitely not aware that there are more domestic accidents or electrocutions here!

Once you have a socket in a bathroom, somebody will use it for a hair drier, heater or toaster.

UK had a case not long ago where somebody has his phone or tablet on his chest while in the bath, having run an extension lead to charge it.

Also
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39307418

metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/accountant-dies-phone-falls-bath-charge-10758195/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7995891/French-girl-15-electrocuted-bath-charging-mobile-phone-slipped-water.html

Anybody who knows how, and has a screwdriver, can connect or disconnect a flex to a flex connector.

here we are

good diagram here

Hi all. Following reading this thread I have decided I'd like to put my washing machine in my bathroom. Now I am looking for a model that the manufacturer says can go in the bathroom, which seems to be one of the conditions for this to meet safety regulations.

I have called a number of appliance sellers but none can recommend me such a model. Does anyone here know a model that specifically states it can be used in a bathroom?

My friend did this last year and got a load i hassle from building control.

His agreed & approved set up is as @PigletJohn says.
He also had to buy a specially bathroom rated washing machine - not many models available in Uk so ended up spending ++ on a Miele.

What country is he in, and how far was the machine from the bath or shower?

Ah, I see it now.

Regulation 701.55 applies.

So rare that I did not know that.

I imagine that models installed in other European countries' bathrooms are likely to be suitable, but have never needed to check.

Our washing machine is in a utility with a toilet etc and is hard wired into the wall and has on/off switches outside the room.
Last time we changed the washing machine DH did they wiring. He’s not a qualified electrician but he is competent. It’s no more difficult that wiring a plug.

Many other European countries are less strict about sockets in the bathrooms. Most Europeans are, in fact, shocked when they come (or shall I say used to?) and learn that washing machines are in the kitchens!

But they don't allow sockets right underneath the kitchen sink, which I have seen a lot in England, and are more likely to build straight, 90-degree walls... :)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9183653/Builder-sacked-sharing-pictures-laughable-wonky-walls-shoddy-brickwork.html