Quotes for extension are nearly double what we discussed with architect

[Barbararara]

We have worked with architect to design our proposed extension. We’ve applied for and received pp and put it out to tender.
So far we’ve received 3 out of 4 quotes and all of them are nearly double the budget originally discussed.

First time dealing with anything like this so I am extremely naive. I’m hoping more experienced posters might know more.

All 3 quotes are within 10k of each other so I’m assuming that is just what it costs to do what we’ve asked. But if that’s the case, shouldn’t the architect have guided us a bit better?

On the other hand, each tender varies widely on individual costs which makes me think that there’s some kind of ballpark figure calculator that they’re using.

But if there is, shouldn’t the architect be using it too?

He’s saying that the next step is to negotiate with the builder, but if all the builders are agreed on price, more or less, my assumption is that there can’t be much movement possible in the price so instead we lose quality?

I don’t know what I should do at this point. I’m feeling very frustrated that we’ve paid several thousand for a design that is unworkable in our budget. I don’t think that our house value justifies the expenditure either. But am I naive in thinking that way too? Should I be talking to an estate agent rather than an architect?

I feel like I’m missing some obvious step in the process somewhere.

If he’d said at the start, that our budget was completely unrealistic we wouldn’t have paid him several thousand for surveying, designing and whatnot.

And if I understood how the costs are calculated we could design within our budget. But how do you find that out, if not from an architect?

Thanks for outlining your experience @J2CL. What did your architects say in response to you getting RIBA, etc, involved?

I really don’t want it to have to come to that for us, and our architects are for now being cooperative and seem to want to find a solution. But there doesn’t seem to be much urgency and i think they will also want more money for any redesign. It’s that that really sticks in my throat as I feel like if they’d just been more realistic to start with we wouldn’t be in this situation. So why should I have to pay them twice to do the same job when they didn’t do it properly the first time?

@CityDweller

Extension plus internal renovation/ remodel. It’s quite extensive work, but the architects assured us throughout that it could be achieved on our budget.

Worrying.. I'm yet to get my first quote for an extension and loft.. I had thought £300k but this thread has me rather worried!

@CityDweller our cases sound a bit similar in that we also had ancient plumbing and electrics which we've largely done using speciist contractors. Then it's literally "just" the extension and loft to do with a single builder. Other stuff like plastering and internal decoration we can contract ourselves separately.
Would that be an option?
I don't blame you for being so upset.

@NewHouseNewMe we are looking at every which way to make it affordable. I can’t imagine it would be cheaper to do the electrics or plumbing separate to the main work though as it all kind of impacts on each other. We’re completely rejigging our downstairs and moving bathrooms around upstairs.

We had pretty much the same problem with our house build. Gave architect our budget, they designed our house to fit that. We then had it prices up by a quantity surveyor and it was double our budget! In the end we had to have it re-designed by another architect.

I think some architects are more "artistic" and get carried away, despite being aware of the budget.

If you have a builder you trust, ask them which architects are good value for money (as in realistic). Many architects have delusions of grandeur -extensions to 3 bed semis are not the Sistine Chapel.

How do architects get away with this sort of bollocks? It’s absolutely crazy.

Our experience has taught me that I'd never use an architect again.

Not sure how we'd do it next time, we've abandoned our project for the same reasons as the rest of you - the extortionate fees are a scam - imo.

Hi @CityDweller,

After getting the quotes back, realizing that I would have to make structural alterations to the architects design - ie a completely new design, and the architect losing all enthusiasm with the project, I decided he was the wrong choice from the outset and so wanted to move on. However the architect has copyright to all the plans, and you can’t take them to another architect to reuse. When I told the architect I wanted the .dwg files, he said I could only have them if I absolve them of any responsibility to the project going forward. There were several ways to move forward but they all involve giving the architect a chance to make good. All paths are tedious, time consuming and if you want to get compensation you will need a lawyer to fight your case.
I would suggest, if you still have faith in your architect, to stick with them. Work out a timeline to complete the project, get a builder onboard to make sure the project is within your budget and also negotiate with the architect a reduced rate to complete the plans. Finally as part of the negotiations ask for the copyright and .dwg drawings. They should be okay with this. I know it may sound mad to pay the architect for the mess they created, but it will be better than the alternative. Swallow the pride, get the house done and enjoy the time with your family.
Best

[quote Barbararara]@Loofah01 thank you. That’s very clear. I’m going to comb through the tenders until I get to grips with exactly what’s being referenced.
Very useful to at least think about it in two parts.

@Slightlydustcovered that’s genius to create the contingency. Very sensible[/quote]
I did this, but had that the stuff taken out could be added back into the work schedule, at the same price as the original quote, written into the contract. The builder had to give 2 weeks notice when he was getting passed the point where they couldn’t be added back.

It meant that I had a large contingency fund, but when it wasn’t needed, I could use it for some of the work I’d had to cut.

Much less stressful

This is a super interesting thread. We are planning to do an extension in London in a few years.

What sorts of things were driving the high costs in some of these quotes? Anything unusual in the designs? We might look to have some sort of glass box over a double height space for example.

Good q @ManyMaybes

I think that many architects redesign the existing house, moving many walls to make it happen which adds £££ because of adding structural support and possibly even strengthening the foundations. On our street, a house changed the frontage to make it look modern. That 1 meter change probably cost £50K alone as four bays had to be removed, foundations added and the roof restructured.

Market conditions are crazy right now. The cost of materials is through the roof over the past year and certainly around here there’s far more work than contractors do they can charge as much as they want. It’s a really really bad time to put tenders out.
(I say that as someone who works on big projects and dh is a QS).

I work in construction, albeit large infrastructure projects. The cost of materials has shut up in the last 2 or 3 months eg, steel has more than tripled. Combination of Covid, Brexit and the Evergreen getting stuck in Suez. Labour costs have increased too, due to diminished liquidity in the workforce (Brexit and HS2).

*shot up! I wish material costs would shut up!

Depending on how big the job is and how complex the changes (and I guess how much it interests you and how easy you find it to envisage things) you can always do it yourself and then go out to builders with your own proposals. You don't have to use an architect.

I've done mine without an architect. The builder has engaged a structural engineer to check the size of the rsj etc (ours is large and also needed steel support columns). Mine is actually a large project and its still been perfectly possible to do it without an architect but I did have a very clear idea of what I wanted.

We renovated snd extended a semi wreck 5 yrs ago, so no brexit/COVID get out clause. Told architect our budget and they instantly and comprehensively blew it. We de-scoped and de-scoped again and still ran over. I’m still cross as most of us only do this kind of thing once in a lifetime if ever, so cannot know where the traps are. I think much of it is totally cynical piss taking tbh- it is v common that architects are paid as a % of the final build cost so they are absolutely incentivised to push you over budget. I would be shot for this level of inaccuracy/misrepresentation in my industry.

Sorry realised that was more of a rant than helpful advice op. I can’t add much to that, that has gone above. My main advice is to anyone who is at the start of something like this - look at alternative ways to pay architects - fixed sum etc. Remove the material incentive to blow your budget. I didn’t realise this was an option til afterwards sadly. Was also a bit naive as I, ya know, thought they were working for/with us and that budgets were not unknown to them .....