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Estate management pack not being completed

34 replies

Iloveappleproducts · 04/06/2020 06:44

I'm hoping to complete on the sale of my house very soon
However the buyers solicitor has asked for an estate management pack to be completed. Although the property is freehold, there is a management company involved and to whom we pay x amount monthly for general upkeep of the communal areas, car park etc.
It's a very small 'estate' with a handful of houses and we all pay equally although are not yet managing it ourselves
The problem is that it took six weeks for the management company to fill in the required pack and that they have not completed vital information including details of costs of works needing to be carried out which will cost extra for the new buyers.
I just know this extra information will not be forthcoming, I had to practically plead on the phone for it to be dome in the first place and very much doubt any finical records have been kept ( which are also being asked for by the buyers solicitor.
So my question to anyone in the know is am I stuffed?
I have googled with no success and have asked my own conveyancer but she has not responded.
Other sales have been completed in the past couple of years and did not require this estate management pack so it's clearly something that the management company have no experience of and have admitted that to me.
I have offered to pay whatever it costs for the work but I really can't see them doing it before my buyers get totally fed up and pull out of the sale which has now gone on for many months.
If the company don't answer the extra enquires am I then doomed to live here for the rest of my life?
I'd honestly be so grateful for anyone to give me some hope

OP posts:
Iloveappleproducts · 06/06/2020 06:39

Nobody?

OP posts:
Flamingolingo · 06/06/2020 06:57

They should at the very least be able to show what they do with the service charge collected, they should have accounts for that, outgoings vs incoming funds and whether there are any reserves, and what they are being used for. There should also be any details of any forthcoming works. When we sold our leasehold house we had to declare that there had been continual discussion of resurfacing the unadopted road, that the plan was to use the surplus for this, but that while discussions were ongoing no clear plan or timescale had been put forward.

Iloveappleproducts · 06/06/2020 07:29

Flamingo I know what they should answer but they're not but I'm very grateful you responded.
My main question is is the sale doomed if the buyers conveyancer doesn't receive these answers?

OP posts:
Pipandmum · 06/06/2020 07:45

My purchase was delayed by four months by this. One building, six flats but managed by an outside agency. I was a cash buyer so no mortgage requirement for this (which I would think a bank would insist). My lawyer insisted - with all the scandal about service charges and commitments to upcoming works and how they are funded - no one wants to be faced with an unexpected bill.
This request should come up every time so it's not hard for the managing company to have it (and totally unprofessional not to), and you could have requested it as soon as you put the property on the market. They should be giving you accounts every year anyway.
However, nothing is insurmountable, and there's probably some kind of indemnity insurance you could get - but you'll have to pay for it. Get on to your conveyancer.

intheningnangnong · 06/06/2020 07:47

Is the management company under contract? I expect this is usually associated with a lease hold arrangement and it’s coming up due to that.

Your solicitor could add a commitment to pay costs for x period, but I think I’d go back to the company, ask the questions and if they answer ‘we don’t know’ complete the form accordingly ie ‘no plans’, or ‘no plans that would not include all house owners consent’ or what ever the truth of the situation actually is. Speak to your solicitor, ask their views.

The buyers solicitor is covering their arse.

Iloveappleproducts · 06/06/2020 08:15

The company did fill in the pack ( of sorts ) but just left out all important details. They now have a solicitor acting for them and he's left all relevant stuff out too. The management company won't respond to me ( that's par for the course) and my conveyancer is trying again with their solicitor.
One problem is that there is major work coming up, they refuse to indicate how much it will cost. Most of the handful of residents will refuse to pay anything extra anyway so I dont know where this leaves me
I'd be happy to make a commitment to pay for works needed and have indicated this but do need to know if it's going to be £1000 or £5000

OP posts:
intheningnangnong · 06/06/2020 08:22

Phone the solicitor yourself and appeal to his human side. Tell him that if the sale falls through you will hold the company responsible. Start making some noise.

Why is this company still involved?

Puppylucky · 06/06/2020 08:25

I think as others have said, the best solution is an indemnity policy, which you pay, for against the cost of future works.
However, the bigger problem is that these difficulties will have alerted the buyer to the fact that the management company they will be dealing with are rubbish and potential law breakers, causing dissent amongst lease holders, (you mention something about some lease holders refusing to pay proposed building costs) so even with an indemnity against future costs, they may be wary of proceeding - I know I would be unfortunately.

SummerDayWinterEvenings · 06/06/2020 08:28

I'd phone and appeal to their better nature and not kick up a stink. I 'd provide all the documents from the last 10 years you have lived there etc Or I'd offer to take out insurance against it.

intheningnangnong · 06/06/2020 08:57

If there are known works you won’t get insurance - that would be like the insurance company writing a blank cheque.

You need them to specify the work and then discuss estimates and times.

I still don’t understand how they are still involved with FREEHOLD properties

Belleende · 06/06/2020 09:02

Yeah for me the cost of the work is almost immaterial. The fact that you have a shoddy management company would have me walk away. Sorry.

Iloveappleproducts · 06/06/2020 09:05

Thanks so much everyone for your invaluable advise
I think I'll email the management company's solicitor on Monday and appeal to their better nature
If there's no joy after that I may take my own legal advise as they are potentially scuppering my sale as well as any sale after this falls through ( I believe I can have some free legal advise through my home insurance)
I have been completely honest with the buyers, they are aware that the management company aren't great. However it's a new estate ( though not new houses more a renovation project) and I just think they've been fine up until now as we pay our fee each month and there are few issues. Now they are being asked to show accounts etc I think theyre just out of their depth

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Iloveappleproducts · 06/06/2020 09:08

I still don’t understand how they are still involved with FREEHOLD properties
Because it's a managed estate. We all own our properties but they sit on private land. The management company maintain communal areas, lighting, the private road etc and for that we pay a fee each month.
I do believe it's becoming a very common scenario with new build estates too

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affor · 06/06/2020 09:21

They won't be able to give you costs if they don't know them. Unless the work has been agreed and sent out for tender to give them estimates, they and you don't have to disclose it to new buyers.

Iloveappleproducts · 06/06/2020 09:30

affor
One of the questions asked in the estate management pack is if there is any work coming up that will not be covered by the usual monthly fee. The answer was Yes but no further information given, ie, no predicted costs
My poor buyers cant be expected to complete on a house without knowing what could be in store for them. None of the homeowners here have been informed of this coming work officially. I only know because it needed to be shared on the form
Now the management company refuse to say anything further.......

OP posts:
intheningnangnong · 06/06/2020 10:09

Phone the solicitor, much easier to engage and persuade.

affor · 06/06/2020 10:29

None of the homeowners here have been informed of this coming work officially.

Ah I see. They should have ticked no on the form then as it's not declarable. Why are management companies always such twats!

WombatChocolate · 06/06/2020 10:30

Regardless of costs coming up, as buyer, I would be put off by crap management company who cannot clearly specify costs coming up soon - shows that they could be very small or have no limit and be huge. Even if they eventually give the info now, I'd be worried about stuff they might later dream up.

Doesn't help you Op, but a key reason why people don't like lease house houses (no longer allowed to be built) or houses with estate charges. Standard freehold house on normal road which is maintained by council and doesn't need strips of grass or ponds maintained is better.

I would ask your conveyancer if the management companies refusal to give the pertinent information within a certain timeframe becomes a breach of some kind of law. I think when people are buying leasehold, Freeholder's do have a time frame within which they have to provide the information.

Essentially, they can say there is no work planned and then not give a figure obviously, but if they say work is planned, they need to give a figure or a range if they are not totally sure yet. They ought to be able to list the planned work and that in itself should suggest if it's large and expensive or small scale.

What does the agreement you have with the management company say about extra works? Is it totally open-ended about how much these can be? I'd so, that is terrible and as a buyer I wouldn't go near it wih a bargepole.

Re indemnity insurances, I'm not sure you will get one for this. Such insurances usually cover things like clauses in leases which aren't specific enough or works which have already been done and not certified. They simply pay out if the owner is sued for a breach and not like standard insurances to cover costs which might come up. They nearly always have a clause which requires the holder of the indemnity to not mention they have it - because otherwise interested parties might start making claims when really there is no issue.

I agree that ringing up and talking to conveyancer and asking them to tell you what their plan is to get a resolution is key - don't be fobbed off. They must have seen this stuff before and it is down to them to push the solicitor of the management company to get the answers you are entitled to. Unfortunately though this might take time and mean you lose your buyer ...but if you at least have the info before getting another buyer, you shouldn't have the delays next time round.

WombatChocolate · 06/06/2020 10:32

Why'd out you ask your solicitor if they can just complete the form again and say no worked planned. If there aren't any specific plans yet that would be okay.

Iloveappleproducts · 06/06/2020 10:50

The form can't be filled in again as the half filled in copy is already with the buyers solicitor and they have rightly raised all these questions.
We have no contract as such just a demand for a fee each month and more recently a veiled advance warning that our fee only covers maintenance and not renewal of certain things.
I know it sounds awful written down but the house is gorgeous and, fir me, it hasn't been an issue up until I need to sell.

OP posts:
Iloveappleproducts · 06/06/2020 10:52

Wombat.
You're correct that people with flats etc on a leasehold do have certain laws on their side
Sadly freehold properties don't

OP posts:
Spickle · 06/06/2020 13:16

How long has the management company been managing your small estate? If it has only been running for a couple of years, it can be difficult to provide information, when they have only one or two previous years figures to go on.

It sounds as though the management company have only just begun the process for the planned works and haven't got as far as obtaining quotes for the work, and therefore it would be impossible for them to give a figure on cost.

Your solicitor should find out from the management company what the planned works are, so that they can advise the buyer's solicitor that, for example, there are electrical repair works to the entrance gates needed (i.e. gated community). The buyer's solicitor could then ask your solicitor to hold a "retention" of a reasonable amount of money from the sales proceeds, which would then be available to the buyer (for, say 18 months) to use towards the cost of these works. If the works cost less than the retention held, you would get the remainder back, or if the works cost more than the retention held, it would at least be a part payment towards the works from which the buyer would get the benefit.

Retentions are the usual way of dealing with unknown future costs and/or service charge accounts in leasehold properties so I do think that a freehold property with a management company for the communal areas would work the same way.

I don't think an indemnity policy would not be acceptable.

Spickle · 06/06/2020 13:17

Edit: I don't think an indemnity policy would be acceptable!

Iloveappleproducts · 07/06/2020 11:01

Spickle
Completely correct in the first two paragraphs
Your third paragraph also makes great sense and thank you so much for mentioning a retention because of the unknown costs. I do know what the work is but didn't want to post too many details here. Verbally I have been given an amount that my proportion won't exceed. However it seems like the management company are now not keen to put it in writing....
I'll email my conveyancer tomorrow and suggest a retention
Many many thanks

OP posts:
mumsy27 · 07/06/2020 19:40

if you're happy to pay for the future cost, then retention is fine, but you really want to pay for future cost.
in my case(selling), my solicitor kept retention(£250+fees) for service charge in case the balance isn't clear on completion day.