Talk to me about taking on a project (please!)

[Lemonylemony]

Can anyone who has been through it talk to me about the experience, things you’d wish you’d known? How did you approach it, what would you do differently etc? I’ve lurked on the extensions thread a lot but I’m talking whole house “modernisation project”.

Place we’re looking at is a 30s 3 bed terrace, doesn’t look like has had much done for a while. It seems decent structurally as much as you can tell from photos/walk past, obviously we’d get a full survey done before going ahead. And I guess we might need new electrics and things. Roof looks fine from the outside and obvs if we did loft conversation eventually it would be replaced anyway.

The downstairs is already knocked through lounge/diner 8.1x3.7m open plan to kitchen 2.5x2.2m with doors out to the garden. Eventually we’d probably want to add an extension out back and turn current kitchen area into downstairs loo accessed from the hallway and utility accessed from the extension, so not sure how much we should do immediately, but the carpet would need to go, so what to do with the floor? Kitchen is currently functional but not pretty, not enough space for all appliances (dishwasher, tumble dryer have nowhere to go). Ceiling in front room area is also some kind of textured/patterned thing (artex?) - some googling leads to scary worries it could contain asbestos! Can you plaster over that stuff? What would you do to the downstairs immediately to make it feel more liveable?

Upstairs is 3 bedrooms - 2 are both 3.7x3.5m and third 2.5mx1.9m. Bathroom is 1.8mx1.9m. Bedrooms just need new carpets/decorating, bathroom is liveable with but eventually would want new bathroom/to look at possibility of extending bathroom into the second bedroom a little to allow for a separate shower cubicle. Or look at whether a nice shower room could go in a loft conversion.

Attached a few photos from screenshots. I think this is all mainly cosmetic issues; DP said “ugh that needs gutting”. So I thought I’d ask on here to get some other peoples opinions!

What should we be aware/wary of? How would you tackle a project like this? What order, what stages did you do? Any good websites/books/resources you can recommend?

The reason we’re considering this property is location & garden make it worth it. It’s 75-100k cheaper than “done” properties we’ve been looking at. But with a better garden (well, more space/potential!) Everything else can be changed right ?

Upstairs photos

You’ll almost certainly have to get the whole house rewired. Unless you can live with the plastered over bits, you will have to redecorated (and quite possibly skim) every room. The combi boiler looks quite old. We’ve done up several houses now and I agree with your husband, it needs gutting. For example, if you’re going to get the living room replastered after the rewiring, there’s no point not pulling out that hideous fireplace thing at the same time.

Everything is going to cost more than you imagine. We have done up two now and about to start on a third. You will have a ball park figure of how much things might cost to sort but you will always find something unexpected, so ensure you have a good contingency fund.
Also some of the jobs you mention are not fun to live through, so think about the practicalities and if it might be better for you to live elsewhere while the worst jobs are being done.
Get quotes, you will be surprised how quickly the costs add up.
It takes an emotional and mental toll doing up house which needs gutting, make sure you are ready for that.
Once it is done you live in a home that you know what has been done and what hasn't and you can enjoy it, however from the outset know it will take longer to get there than you might initially think.

Living with constant dust gets pretty old pretty quick! If I painted the walls, had new carpets and a basic new bathroom though, I could quite happily live there. If you're getting it for £100k less than renovated versions though, I'd absolutely go for it.

Currently living through it. We bought a year ago a wreck, but lovely garden and location. We are a year in and in the middle of a 2 story extension. We are living in chaos, lockdown isn't helping. We have had to do it from scratch. But we will end up with a house perfect for us that we just would never have been able to afford if we were to buy it done. You will need much more money than you think - and a bullet proof marriage. Would I do it again? Probably yes.

Also have a read of the loft conversion extension thread very informative.

Same advice as above, it will cost more and take longer than you expect, but if you can live through it it’s worth it.
What’s your budget to do it up?

I love a project, this house looks great. But it will take more time and money than you think - once you've taken absolutely everything into account financially, give yourself another 20% contingency and be aware you will probably end up spending it. Ditto time - assume will take at least 20% longer than scheduled. If you can, do everything at once - and live elsewhere, the dust and filth are a nightmare. Go see the neighbours and let them know - it's horrible living next to a renovation project so be really nice to them, and make sure you have a good builder/project manager who they can speak to if they have any issues. Be aware that you and your partner will have to make hundreds of decisions - make sure you're on the same page as much as you can! Projects are hard work but at the end you will have a lovely home, exactly how you want it - it's a fantastic feeling.

@Lemonylemony
I went through renovations - house was gutted to do the following:
*full rewire - think really hard about your electrical plan; walk around the house imagining switching on and off lights, where plugs will go (this requires thinking what and where furniture wise will be), what kind of lighting you want;
*central heating replacement - boiler, radiators and pipes (you might want some radiators to be in different places);
*skimming walls and ceilings to be painted later;
*carpets will be disposed of when rewiring and replacing central heating system, good chance to check condition of subfloor boards (to replace/secure loose ones - so there's no squeaking or/and creaking) - you need to decide if you want carpets or laminate or hardwood flooring (every flooring company has calculators to calculate the cost of materials by rooms);
*kitchen renovation - ripping out existent one; planning your own design - imagine standing there and cooking/moving around; draw a plan with all measurements you want (cupboards/pan drawers) and then consult store that sells kitchens (they will have a software that provides detailed neat plan and photo like pictures of how it will look like); at this point you would need to think where you want plugs to go (how many appliances you will need). I went for freestanding units as opposed to integrated (it was cheaper and it is easy to repair/access/replace if needs to);
*bathroom renovation - replacing dated sink, loo and bath (do you want shower to have more space for storage?); re-tiling or stripping tiles off, plastering and painting;
*what is the state of windows? is there condensation on some of them? If yes glass needs to be replaced (it is cheaper than replacing the whole window):
*painting - do not underestimate the cost of paint; cheaper option is to paint everything in one color;
*skip hire - get covered skip as some people might use it to dispose of their stuff.

You need to know exactly what you need to be done. I would proceed looking for builders only when you have a plan of what has to be done. Further details (not major stuff) can be discussed with builders.

If you hire a company to do all or separate trades people - get at least 3 quotes and always ask for references from previous customers. Ask to see before and after photos. Get a written quote for jobs (ask to have detailed quote - labor and materials (tradesman often have special discounts in stores) and time frame (here you need to add extra week or two as projects overrun)). When you have a ballpark figure add on top of it at least 20% (there always will be additional unexpected costs/slight modifications). Make sure you sign contract that specifies total cost, detailed cost and time frame including any penalties (get a solicitor to draw one) - you might pay £100 for the service, but if any issues arise you have covered yourself). Do not agree to pay deposit, pay in installments after certain major jobs/parts are done. Always keep written communication saved.

Best is not to stay in the house during renovations if you want to stay sane!

Yes, there are stages to a projects and sometimes they overlay each other (electrics and plumbing and plastering). If you manage different tradespeople yourself it will be very difficult and stressful to schedule, whereas if it is one company the leading builder will arrange everything.

It took me 4 months to plan renovation reading renovation articles (google!!), forums, checking prices and calculating costs of materials. Every day 3 hours after work and full saturdays!! I knew nothing about houses before that so this took me a while. From planning, renovating and to moving in it was 7 months...

Beforehand I spoke to my future neighbors and told them how long it will last and told them to let me know if builders arrive to early for them. And/or if there were times when they needed quit day/time.

This is in nutshell - apologies for long post.

@Lemonylemony

Forgot to add - take pictures of progress every 2-3 days.

I also ended up talking to main builder who oversaw project 2-3 times a day. It was regarding progress or/and some details/small decisions.

Due to constant communication and my tight control I went over budget by 4% (I kept spreadsheet) and completion was delayed by 1 week.

Have you pulled up the carpets and had a look at what's there? You just might get lucky and have something lovely underneath.

Thankyou for everything so far! House is actually around the corner from my work so practically I could maybe manage things. I was thinking that we could cheaply repaint/carpet upstairs and move in, then do all the planning and budgeting and scheduling for the downstairs. Thinking how we could stage it. We do have relatives nearby we could camp with for a few weeks if/when absolutely necessary.

Will try and peek under carpets when viewing tomorrow!

When I said cosmetic vs gutting I really meant that I thought we could maybe do the work in stages, and only live elsewhere for the worst bits, where as my partner basically thinks it’s uninhabitable in its current state

Does anyone have any good sites for ballparks on things like electrics, plumbing etc?

www.homebuilding.co.uk/renovation-assessing-the-potential/

www.realhomes.com/advice/house-renovation-costs

trustedtraders.which.co.uk/articles/cost-guide-painters-and-decorators

www.homebuilding.co.uk/rewiring-explained/

www.homebuilding.co.uk/complete-guide-to-renovating-a-house/

www.littlehouseonthecorner.com/where-to-start-a-home-renovation/

www.thespruce.com/how-to-renovate-a-house-1822429

www.homebuilding.co.uk/contracts-qa/

www.theheatinghub.co.uk/guide-to-boiler-installation-costs

www.hugooliver.com/blog/paint-vs-tiles-bathroom-walls/

www.ratedpeople.com/diy-advice/q/diy/22538/we-are-about-to-exchange-contracts-on-a-house-that-needs-a-lot-of-work-done---what-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-getting-it-all-done-by-one

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/getting-home-improvements-done/before-you-get-building-work-done/

www.self-build.co.uk/hiring-trades/

These are some that I still have in my bookmarks. Most are for 2018 and 2019, but will give you a general idea. Prices also depend on where you live and obviously they rise every year.

Doing it step by step is nerve wrecking and you will be fed up with constant dust! I truly admire people that have stamina to live through ongoing works while in the property! I absolutely would not be able to do it...

I believe the major works like rewiring and central heating upgrade have to be done in one go. The rest can be done in stages (skimming, floors, bathroom, kitchen, etc.).

Most recent for central heating:

householdquotes.co.uk/how-much-to-install-central-heating/

Thanks @LaughingDonkey for the last link. That will help me too. I have had quotes as high as £5,500 for central heating for a 4 bed house, and I'm not in London.

Thankyou so much for all that a lot to read through!

If you possibly can I would bite the bullet and get it all done at once - if you do some rooms properly then go back and do an extension you're probably looking at cracks in the plasterwork, dust everywhere etc.

I appreciate that might not be viable in which case I would not spend too much time on interim finishes, even for rooms you don't intend to touch again. So get it rewired and get the bedrooms skimmed and paint them white but don't invest too much time and energy into decor schemes until all the work is done.

@Rhapsodyinpurple

It also depends at the scope of work. For example, you might get a quote of £4,000 provided they do not have to cover new holes made (if you let's say move boiler to a new location), boiler is on the lower price range and there are no obstacles (furniture/carpets/etc.). Means work is done when house is stripped/gutted.

It goes up if you want everything to be returned to original state inc. carpets put back.

Also it might be higher if they replace existing boiler with more expensive one.

You need a detailed quote - boiler, materials, labor and discuss what works will be performed exactly (will they put the floor/carpets back, etc.). Additionally, you need to check engineers credentials and have gas safety certificate issued at the end (otherwise your home insurance can be invalidated).

*on the scope

I would not spend too much time on interim finishes, even for rooms you don't intend to touch again. So get it rewired and get the bedrooms skimmed and paint them white but don't invest too much time and energy into decor schemes until all the work is done.

That’s my thinking tbh.

Hmm, doing a bit more research and whilst the asking price is 70-100k less than other same size properties in better condition, for that particular road, the asking price is actually the ceiling price. Same size property in decent nick sold at this price just in December. So I’m not happy that asking price is fair. My gut tells me another 40k(9%) off. Don’t know how sensible my gut is!

Yeah the average sold price for the road last year is £12k under this asking price, and this is definitely below average standard. They’ve just taken the bottom end of the Zoopla estimate by the look of things. We know how accurate they are this is over priced

My Dh is project managing our youngest dds 3 bed semi renovation in south east london.
Gutted the place internally and new windows outside, only thing that stayed was the roof and outside walls... final cost will be just over 50k!

Wow that sounds good value Alexa. Any secrets?

With your latest update then Lemony, I would put in a low ball offer and be prepared to be rejected.