New water meter - faulty? Help please!

[VivaLosGatos]

We have a water meter (it was there when we bought the house a couple of years ago) and the water company replaced it with a new meter in January.

Since then we've had a water bill in March showing water usage up to January (so on the old meter) which works out as approx 1 cubic metre per day, and water usage since January (so on the new meter) which works out as 2.6 cubic metres per day.

Surely this is wrong?! There have been no changes: no new appliances, no leaks that I know of, no lifestyle changes, nothing. We have a swimming pool (which is why there is a water meter), but it's closed all winter. Nothing has changed apart from the water meter. There are 4 of us living here and nobody is using a lot of water for anything.

Can a water meter be faulty? And if so, what can I do about it?

Would be very grateful for any advice or info!

Yes, meters can go wrong. Although when I rang the water company (10 years ago!) to say ours had broken, I was told it was impossible.
Since the error was in our favour, I left it. 9 months later, they decided I was right, and replaced our meter. Aparently we used precisely zero water for those 9 months.......

Anyway, I suspect you will have a battle on your hands. Can you switch off the water at the stopcock for a few hours, and see if there is any movement in the reading, suggesting there is a leak between the meter and the house?
If there is also a stopcock at the meter, it is worth separately turning that off, and seeing if that makes a difference. But zero water for a few hours with everyone in the house isnt the easiest right now.

Thanks - I will give these a try (when the washing machine finishes!).

More likely you have a leak.

Can you photograph the meter please, especially showing the glass dial (wipe it clean) and the T handle if there is one.

How old is your house?

This is the meter The house was built 1930s

I've been wondering about a leak, too, but it would be a bit of a coincidence for a leak to start right when the meter is replaced? Or might the replacement cause a leak?

Either way, I can't believe we get through 2.6 cubic metres per day. That's a ridiculous amount!

hmmm, I haven't used that type of meter. On some, there is a rotating wheel or clockface, with a bubble under the glass, and the bubble moves when water is flowing.

Can you detect any movement on yours, even of the numbers?

Do you know a young person with sharp hearing?

I also can't see a T handle to turn the water off. Can you see anything that looks like it might do that? Including a socket where a handle might be pushed in?

Have you got an internal stopcock?

I'm thinking a house of your age was probably built with iron pipes, and, unless they have been replaced, they are likely to be leaking by now. It might possibly start or worsen when pipes were disturbed or the water turned on and off.

Can you see any iron pipes (or lead) in the supply down the hole or inside near your stopcock? Or any plastic ones (black or blue)?

The picture looks like a meter I used to have in London. Does the little green thingy on it rotate when you are using water?
If yes then that’s the thing to watch when you turn the stop cock off inside your house.

When water companies put in / replace meters they can damage existing pipe work and this is exactly what happened to us.

This is awkward. I don't think we have a stopcock inside the house - well, not one that works for the whole house, anyway. When we had some plumbing work done in the autumn then I think they had to switch it off at the pavement (where the meter is).

Which means presumably there must be a stopcock thing in the pavement. I will go out there with a torch and have a look.

There is slow movement on the numbers on the water meter even when no water is being used in the house.

A tiny thing that looks a bit like a fan is rotating.

There is a big T handle next to the meter.

The ground under the water meter is really wet, which I don't think it should be at this point (the surface ground is hard and dry).

Sounds like you've hot a leak near the meter -probably from when they replaced it. Ring them up, and see what they say.

That's what I'm hoping... ideally I would like any problem to be outside our house and someone else's responsibility!

The T handle (I couldn't see it in your photo?) will be the stop cock of the meter. When you screw it down the water will go off and (no doubt) the meter will stop going round.

It's very strange not to have a stopcock in the house, either next to where the front gate used to be when the house was built, or underneath where the sink used to be when the house was built. Ask neighbours with identical houses if they have one.

also, ask around locally for personal recommendations of a local plumber (doesn't need to be a boilerman). A wrinkly old one with a cloth cap will do fine. I think you need to ask if he can find any sign of a leak (if he is old and local he will have seen hundreds, if not thousands, and will be familiar with houses just like yours) and also, to fit an indoor stopcock for you.

Invite him to test for a leak with a glass of water on the kitchen tap. Even if he can't find where it is, he will know if there is one.

Is your kitchen floor concrete? Or wood with a space underneath?

Lift some floorboards (e.g. under the stairs) and look under some kitchen units.. Sniff. Can you smell damp? Are there any signs such as mildew on walls near the floor?

You mentioned a swimming pool. It might be on the pipe to that. Does it have a stopcock?

The relevance of the stopcocks is that you turn them off, and see if the water flow stops. If yes, the leak is beyond that stopcock; if no, it is upstream.

If you have any water tanks in the loft, look and see if any are constantly filling. Do the same with WC cisterns. They will (should) have service valves. Turn them off and see if it makes a difference.

A young person with sharp ears will be able to tell if the (almost imperceptible) hiss of a leak stops, even if the don't notice it as a continuous background boise. If you don't have access to such a person, buy an Engineer's Stethoscope for a few pounds on ebay, and press the end against some pipes.

oh, re-reading I see the meter pit is wet. so it may be a leak near there (it could be along the pipe under the garden, and running back). A house stopcock would verify that... if you could find one.

Do you have any expectedly green areas nearby, or trees that grow very vigorously?

One more thing to note is this leak ( if a leak) could have been there for a while. Typically meters under record as they get older so it could be that the replacement is now just better at recording any issue you may have. It is very common for toilet cisterns to leak that have push valve flushes. That would be my first place to check. Otherwise could be a leak on your supply pipe. Good news is that if you are in some water company areas they will refund you the value of a supply leak. Most however will say you are responsible for wastage internally.

The first thing to ascertain, would be whether you have blue mdpe pipe or lead pipe, running from your meter into your house. If the meter was replaced by the water board and it was lead pipe from the meter into the house, they should have ensured that the lead pipe was tested on the day it was replaced, normally by someoneyou employ, but that should be there responsibility to make sure it is safe before entering the house. So that would be the first thing to check. It is likely to be black in colour

Sorry, it is likely to be black in colour if it is the old imperial plastic too, so that may have split as well

Thanks so much to everyone for your replies. This is a learning curve for me!

I've been out there again with a better torch and taken more photos.

In this one you can see the T bar for turning off the water going into the meter.

The pipes leading in and out of the meter are both blue (although this may not be clear in the photo).

If you cannot locate a stop cock inside and you are in a terrace with a cellar, there may be a stop cock for your supply in one of the neighbouring houses.

In that case, you would do best to get in touch with your water supplier and explain that you have an untraceable leak near your meter. Let them know that it has only shown since your meter was replaced in January. They should send someone out to investigate within 24 hours as they are liable to be fined, if it isn't investigated within a reasonable amount of time. Talk through it with them and explain everything about it, how round your meter is wet and how your recorded usage has more than doubled.

Oh no, I wrote a long post and it has disappeared!

I will get onto the water company.

We have asked a plumber to come out on Monday to look for leaks in the house, search out a stopcock and hopefully install one if we don't have one.

The stopcock situation is very weird. We do have 2 things under a kitchen cupboard which look like stopcocks. But neither of them turn off all the mains water to the house - only to some parts. Not sure whether the 2 together would turn off everything. One of them is leaking, although not enough to waste 1.6 cubic metres of water per day! I will ask the plumber to fix it.

I don't know about a stopcock for the pool, but I know the guy who built it and will ask him.

There is only 1 house that was built on the same plan as this one. I just went there to ask where their stopcock is. They showed me it in the garage. But in our house the garage has been converted into a study and there is no sign of any pipe or stopcock.

The ground under the water meter is really soggy.

I can't find any signs of other leaks, inside or outside.

The search continues...

If you had a leak of 1600 litres of water a day in your house, you would soon notice. The plumber should be able to help you identify certain leaks in your house and the change of meter may have caused an increase in pressure and flow rate to your house. This can expose certain old parts that are in need of replacing, such as washers on toilet fill valves and taps. But, 1600 litres a day, is a big increase and you would hope that you would hear and/or notice that amount of water leaking.
In terms of stopcocks, if the supply pipe from the meter is running in blue mdpe, you should have one end of your mains stopcock connected to a blue mdpe pope, then the other end connected to copper or white plastic pipe. If you don't find that, look for your stopcocks being connected to either black pipe or possibly copper connected to what is called a lead loc. This may help you know if all the pipe has been updated or is still running on old connections somewhere. This may be useful to identify the lead loc www.screwfix.com/p/compression-reducing-lead-to-copper-coupler-7lb-1-x-15mm/53125?tc=HB2&ds_kid=92700048793290397&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1249404&gclid=CjwKCAjw5cL2BRASEiwAENqAPtf64aDXsLPcNJP9Fz9wiL6f_js_uNqjEQVWQciU-A8YDGhcMARCXRoCZAIQAvD_BwE

Thank you, I will look out for the blue supply pipe (or black pipe or lead loc).

Yes, when I think of it as 1600 litres a day then it is hard to imagine that happening in the house without us noticing! (although obviously I don't know what is happening under the floor).

I am praying that the main leak is out under the pavement by the water meter. I really don't want to start excavating our floors (or even our garden)!