Blackheath vs Orpington - what age DC would you move?

[purpletrees16]

Hi all,

Appreciate we’re very fortunate to still be considering moving in 2020/21.
I’m having a bit of conundrum about areas and lifestyles of where to live post lockdown. If an area doesn’t have good/suited secondaries what age DC did you move? I’d love to know what made you move/not move to the suburbs and how old were your DCs were at the time.

Since 2019 we’ve narrowed down to two options that meet our redlines and seen a few properties:

Opt 1: to buy a smaller place in Blackheath which has all the trappings of life we currently enjoy as married childless people (restaurants, warm sourdough, no car, a great run route and a short commute by bike- although slightly longer than currently.)

Opt 2: Or to skip a life stage and go straight to Orpington - commute is less frequent but still short enough (petts wood etc. are too long - we regularly work 12 hour days.) and the garden/house will be larger/fancier (not ex-la) but restaurants aren’t as great... I like one of the three we’ve tried.

Wfh will change to max 2 days most likely 1 day a week so commute is still very important - commuting stresses me out a lot.

It’s a heart vs head situation and I’d love to hear what decision you’d make esp. if you have children!

Hello, I bought a 2 bed flat in East Finchley (north london zone 3) last year, i also viewed a 2 bed house in Orpington and consid I know that they are pretty different areas, but my primary consideration when looking was schools (as i am looking to conceive 1 DC in the next few years ). Both areas have pretty good schools. Of course, East Finchley is much prettier (walkable to highgate woods, the heath and muswell hill) and 20 minutes to central london on the tube so quite similar to blackheath. i am glad i chose east finchley, i do have access to a communal garden and i like my surroundings much more.

IMHO, Orpington looked good on paper, zone 6 with manageable commute costs and timings, good comps and grammars, cheaper housing relative to London. But I just didn't really like the area; the town centre had a sad look about it. at that time when we were searching, DH was working 12 hour days too so commute was very important to us which did play a big role into why we stayed in zone 3.

Blackheath all day. Location, location, location!

Restaurants will be less of a consideration if/when you have kids. I have lots of colleagues who live in Orpington and love it. Also has Chapter One nearby which has a michelin star. Green Street Green seems lovely but it is the burbs and what you are really saying is 'is it time to grow up'?

Blackheath. I have lived in blackheath/Westcombe Park/East Greenwich for 12 years since my eldest child was born and I love it.
Shorter commute and ability to run or cycle the commute makes so much difference to mental health and time spent with kids.
I am definitely happier with smaller place in the type of area I much prefer.

If you need to be in the office regularly then you should only buy somewhere you can cycle in from - it's not going to be normal for a long time, otherwise I would just rent and save, no way are house prices rising fast anytime soon.

How small a place in blackheath?
What’s your budget OP, sounds like nearer beckenham would work for you.

Not all areas of Orpington are equal.
You don't want to end up living in the shit one and No the estate agents don't differentiate. I can imagine Blackheath is the same.

If you are thinking about kids and schools then again the estate agents will say rubbish like good area for schools but the reality is unless you live 0.5 of a mile from the primary you don't have a hope in hell of getting in.

If you want to move to the suburbs then maybe rent in each area for a period before you buy?

At your life stage, Blackheath. If you have kids then reassess for secondary. There are many children in Blackheath attending the Orpington and Bexley Grammars (school buses run by various companies). Primaries are good, state secondaries less so but Thomas Tallis is currently okay.

Petts Wood is nice but is a much more suburban experience.

Blackheath doesn’t have as good secondary state schools- moving into Bromley would give you access to grammar schools/ better state schools. If you want to keep the cafe culture of blackheath/ be closer to blackheath, live in BR1 or BR3

Thanks so much. Time to grow up is a factor though I’ve never lived in a suburb. DH has asthma but both areas we’re considering are light blue on London Air.

Beckenham is 22min to London Bridge and every half hour which is less frequent and slower than Orpington. Same with Bromley trains (though we did go round the town centre but haven’t been to Beckenham.) Are the cafes/restaurants comparable to blackheath?

We did try syndenham/crystal palace but DH wasn’t a fan plus more polluted on LondonAir.

Our budget is 600-625k. Due to redlines about desired dog ownership; DH not sleeping on the ground floor; and our parents being able to stay occasionally: it has got to be a 3 bed house. Seems we can possibly get 89m2 max Blackheath- south before Lee in ex-LA and 120m2 in Orpington on the edge of the knoll area (br6). Actual knoll maybe if anything actually goes on the market. We currently rent an unfurnished 60m2.

As for saving and moving: we are waiting a bit hence 20/21 but have been waivering since October 2019 so it seems that we really should be able to make this decision. Moving rental flat we would like to avoid as I love our current area and do have friends here but it’s too polluted for DH and we can’t afford much more than a flat of the 60m2 we currently rent. We did spend a couple of nights in an Airbnb in Orpington to try out the commute in Jan.

Have you looked at Charlton SE7? You'll get a bigger house for your money there and it's one stop on the train to Blackheath. Accessible by train to the Bexley and Dartford Grammars. Lee Green, SE12 also ok and borders Blackheath.

I strongly suggest going to beckenham high street, looking at Kelsey park- very blackheath esque.
I’m from blackheath and now live in Bromley- I would live in Petts wood but it’s very different to blackheath.
Se7- charlton is nice but you will have the same issue with secondary schools.

Beckenham has multiple stations, if you need London bridge then clock house would be the station, or shortlands has trains to blackfriars, there are also stations at new beckenham, kent house, Elmer's end depending where around Beckenham you look. It's a much more realistic area for your budget than blackheath. Its centre is much prettier and more village like than bromley.

Although Blackheath has the Heath and Greenwich Park adjacent, the traffic is pretty horrendous and the South Circular is at Lee. It wouldn't be a place I'd go to for clean air - I think somewhere like Petts Wood/Orpington would be 'cleaner' and it has countryside close by. Or what about Sevenoaks? Very fast trains to LB, Knole Park on your doorstep, excellent schools and a lot of chi chi shops and cafes.

Just wanted to pipe up and say we’ve just bought in Beckenham, though we’d rented in the area for over ten years. It has excellent transport links with three additional mainline stations in addition to Beckenham Junction. The meandering LB train from Beckenham junction is a pain but easy - just get on the train and go. But if you cycle five minutes to New Beckenham station, you can get to LB much, much faster. Big cafe culture and lovely high st. Still feels like London and zone four. Gorgeous parks - Kelsey park and Beckenham Place Park with tons going (lockdown notwithstanding!). I never really appreciated how lovely Beckenham is before I had children - we lived here about six years before DC1 came along. It’s a lovely place to be pre children - going out for the evening to restaurants and bars - and a lovely place to bring up children.

Interesting re: beckenham.
We’re Canary Wharf / city / shoreditch for work and always will be jobs wise so London Bridge or change at lewisham for DLR.

Is it nice to live

was also coming to suggest charlton.
flights are no issue as the flight path is parallel with the river.
tube - walking/cycling distance
canary wharf - cycling djstance
great park
strong neighbourhood associations

state secondary schools are getting better in the area and primaries are good. loads of private schools nearby as well if that's an option.

Honestly the 10mins difference is barely noticeable!
I would look at secondary schools though in charlton- nice zone 2/3 of London tend to have fantastic state primary schools and not so good secondaries as people tend to then move out (for that reason). The good secondary/ grammar schools are in Bromley borough or bexleyheath.

How old do you move for secondary schools? If we move somewhere with good primaries, what year is good to move for secondaries or is it best to move for reception? Or do you have to be in a feeder primary school (I grew up in Scotland and don’t know anyone with older than 1 year olds). I would be happy to move after 5 ish years.

Private school could be an option but I wouldn’t want to rely on it.

You will apply for secondary school when your child is year 6- the school year they turn 11- they start secondary school being 11

Another here vouching for Charlton - I work in Canary Wharf and the commute is amazing! There's so many lovely houses round here and the schools are great, we moved here to start a family last year for that exact reason. And it's also one of the Mayor's regeneration areas so likely to see a huge amount of investment in the next few years which means property prices will hopefully rise

Bear in mind the fast trains to and from Orpington are not generally at peak times, you’ll be on the 30 min rattler along with us Petts Wood folk. I would choose Blackheath over Orpington but Petts Wood over both, but then I am biased having lived here for years.

Beckenham is full of restaurants and bars. There are several stations plus the tram to East Croydon station. There are 2 lovely parks and a tennis club. Houses will be cheaper and the air a bit cleaner. There are very good primary and secondary schools,.

Hi Pettswoodparadise! we went to Petts Wood because of a lot of your posts on questions like these - I’d never heard of it before! I like Petts Wood but DH isn’t convinced. We work 9.30-late so I will be able to get the fast train (I’m a night owl who used to work with most of the office on NYC time.)

At the moment i am leaning on 5+ years of short cycling commute and being closer to friends and then moving before secondary school... which is so far away since we don’t have a DC yet! At that time places like Petts Wood sound great - plus hopefully we’ll have more savings and some equity.

Beckenham would be worth going to see but it’s a long cycle to get there and is still quite far. East croydon is ok for the box park but we did look at croydon first (Commute) and I wouldn’t say that travel to it a big plus. The board game cafe is fun though.

@purpletrees16 - oh dear notoriety . You sound like you know what you are after which is key. Both Blackheath and Petts Wood have great community feels. Good luck. DD’s grammar in Orpington has people from Blackheath and environs (9 mile radius catchment). A friend in her class moved to Petts Wood when her little sister also got into the school.