Converted Basement - No Building Reg?

[Misscf81]

I am in the middle of purchasing a property the has a basement, but I am not 100% if there are building regs.

The property was marketed as a 3-bed/2-bath - because there are 2 bedrooms upstairs, with a bathroom, and then the basement which is currently used as an office/bedroom and has a shower room.

We were advised there were building regs, and also presumed because it was being marketed by the agent as a 3-bed/2-bath (therefore habitable rooms) that it met the regulations.

The valuation was done, and it was valued at 192K, which is what we are buying it for - but I have not seen a copy as it was done by the lender, and they will not provide me with a copy.

So, we got a homebuyers report done, which is now asking questions about the basement. I have asked my solicitor to speak to the vendor solicitor and also emailed the estate agent and have not heard anything back as of yet. However, I am thinking there are now regulations in place and I don't know what to do.

We don't want to pull out as we love the house, and the cellar is not the main reason we are buying it - but as a FTB I just don't know how to play this...

Do we walk away, do we accept that there is no building regs but see if we can get indemnity insurance and also get some money knocked off the PP? Do I try and speak to the surveyors and ask them if it would still value at 192K, even if the basement is not classed as a bedroom?

This house sold a few months ago for 202K (we know because we offered and did not get it), but then it fell through and came back on the market and we agreed at 192K, so I do feel we have already got a bit of a bargain - but that said, I don't want to pay for a 3-bed, when it is only a 2-bed, and we lose out when we come to sell it.

Any advice?

We had a loosely similar issue when purchasing our home. Ours was in relation to an extension which included amongst other things, a fourth bedroom.

Vendor was being wishy washy about the building regs and it was delaying the process, so I called the planning department myself and got confirmation that no, the building regs weren't signed off.

Our solicitors were a bit annoyed at me and advised that we could have gotten indemnity insurance if I hadn't of brought it to the councils attention. However we didn't want that so got the vendors to complete the process of getting the extension signed off (seeing as they lied about it anyway)

As a compromise we paid for a gas safety inspection that was needed, I think it cost me £25 but it saved the sale and we didn't lose our buyers.

I am currently purchasing a property with a small conservatory and the vendors cannot find the paperwork for it (it's a probate sale so the family are having to deal with it). However, my conveyancer has arranged indemnity insurance which covers any future re-sale.

Thank you for replies - as I understand it the Indemnity insurance only covers you if the council come after you, is that correct? It does not provide cover for example if the basement collapses due to shoddy workmanship?

I have looked on the council website under Building Control, and there are three things on there relating to windows and fires - nothing about a basement. I don't think there are any regs, and I am super annoyed with the estate agent, and also not sure if we can get anything negotiated off the price now, as we already not it for less than it was initially sold for (but did pay 2K above the asking, and this was based on a 3-bed).

We had this with our loft - advertised as a 3rd bedroom but converted without meeting building regs for a habitable room. Our lender re-valued the house as a 2 bed and we had a structural engineer look at the loft and confirm that the conversion was fine, but it would need x, y and z at x cost to complete the conversion to meet habitable standards and get signed off.

I'd say if you are unable to confirm it's safe, and it's something you'll worry about, I would pull out. However if it was converted 10 years ago and seems ok, if it were me I would probably go ahead and do any remedial work later down the line (probably before I sold). Are you able to ask the lender if it was valued as a 2 bed?

Don;t need permission to convert a cellar into a living space currently - www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/5/basements

I doubt there was any structural change but I'm always concerned about damp in cellars so I'd be investigating how they made sure it will stay dry. Your solicitors will get to the bottom of it at any rate.

Yes as a follow up to above poster - are you able to find out if the house is in an area with a high water table? Tanking cellars in damp areas can cause the damp to appear in the house - we were advised against converting ours because of this.

Thank you for replies - as I understand it the Indemnity insurance only covers you if the council come after you, is that correct?

That is correct.

It does not provide cover for example if the basement collapses due to shoddy workmanship?

It's pretty unlikely to collapse. The likelihood is that the basement was built at the same time as the house and has only more recently been converted into more useable accomodation. probably the most important thing to be aware of is what sort of fire espace is there? Is there more than one entry/exit point? How is the basement accessed? Have mains-wired smoke alarms been installed? Essentially what would happen if someone was in the basement and a fire started in another part of the house? Is there a safe method of exit?

I am super annoyed with the estate agent

Almost all of the information about a property comes from the vendor. Therefore if the agent asked the vendor "do you have building regs sign off for your basement conversion?" and the vendor tells them "yes!" Is the agent really at fault?

I have asked my solicitor to speak to the vendor solicitor

If there is sign-off, it should be referred to on your local authority search results, if it's not on there it's pretty unlikely that it was properly signed off.

Loofah01 - as I understand it, you don't need planning permission, but you need building regulations to ensure that everything is done correctly? This is what I am reading on the council website of where I am buying.

I want to ask the lender to see what the valuation says (it is silly they will not give me a copy) - if they say it has been valued as a three bed and I find out there are no regulations - do I let them know? Will I need to speak to the surveyor and ask what they would value it as on the basis of a 2-bed?

Don;t need permission to convert a cellar into a living space currently

But you are supposed to get building regs approval if you want to use it as habbitable space.

I want to ask the lender to see what the valuation says

I'm not sure I'd be overly concerned about exactly what the valuation says, which is probably very little!

The bit that I'd be checking above anything else is what the fire escape situation is.

Does it depend when to work to make it habitable was done? I know if you have a conversion done today then it includes things like windows suitable to double up as fire escapes.

Personally I wouldn't pay for what has been valued as a three bed, to risk it in future being valued as a two bed.

There you go then, if council require it then it is required. Might also want to check party wall agreements

Update - I called our lender, and it has been valued at 192K for a 2-bed, 1-bath (not a 3-bed, 2-bath).

So, I guess this is good? Should we seek to get the seller to pay for indemnity insurance anyway? Still, no one has confirmed whether there are building regs or not - but I am guessing not.

Should we seek to get the seller to pay for indemnity insurance anyway?

Might as well, your lender may insist upon it in any event. Although my personal view is that they're a waste of money, the chance of the council taking enforcement action is close to zero.

Ask your solicitor what the local search results reveal. This should show all planning permission/building regs details associated with the house.

Mildura - thanks, will do - although I actually hate speaking to our solicitor, not sure if this is normal of solicitors, but you would think I was asking them to do all of this for free the way they are treating us.

When was it done though? We mortgaged and the valuer was fussing about building regs for the cellar (used as a workshop, used to be the coal hole), which was built when the house was built in 1835, no building regs. He then wanted building regs for the garden room and the extension and the attic room. those were all done in the 70s/80s, way before currrent regs came in. I phoned the council and they found something on microfiche that satisfied the surveyor, but honestly, if it was all before regs (and well before we bought the house), what can you do?

Good luck with that lol
The solicitor should be ensuring anything that was legally required for the building works is present and valid. Let the solicitor sort this.

Now my solicitor is saying we don't need indemnity insurance, because the room is not being sold to us as a habitual room - make sense I guess but surely the local authority can still come after us because there are no building regs?

The period where the council can take enforcement action is very small, 2yrs after the work was completed if I remember correctly. Technically they can do something outside of this period, but it would need to involve obtaining a court order. Councils have to got better things to be doing than chasing round people who converted their basement without the appropriate sign-off.

Make sure you're only paying for a two bed. I'd also have gone for a full structural survey with a basement conversion to check the structure, damp proofing etc.

It is not correct to say that the council only has a short period of time re lack of building regulation consent
It is obviously very unlikely they would ever do something off their own bat
Building something without planning permission is different,after a period (7 years?) no action can be taken
OP,speak to your solicitor
Basically if you buy a property without the consents it is very unlikely there will ever be any problem until you come to sell
When you come to sell , a purchaser May take a firmer line than you and refuse to go ahead, particularly in a time where the market is difficult
If retrospective consent can be obtained that is the gold standard
Indemnity Insurance does not replace this and can be a lazy solution
Your solicitor also needs to report the position to your lender to ensure they are happy for you to proceed

It is not correct to say that the council only has a short period of time re lack of building regulation consent

I said they have a short period of time to take enforcement action without the need to obtain a court injunction

Which unless things have changed recently is still the case.

Ok have never heard of that in 25 years in practice