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Original poster

New home, fence/boundary in wrong position?

30 replies

Wurli30 · 04/04/2020 22:03

Not sure if this is the right place but hopefully someone can help!

We've recently bought and have started renovating a small victorian terrace with a tiny 4.3m x 5m back yard.

It appears at some point in the past some of the fences on our side of the road ended up being installed slightly crooked by the previous housing trust owners.

As part of the work we'd obviously like to square off our yard and correct the position of the fence on our left. As I see it the fence should run straight down through the middle of the houses like a continuation of the party wall.

The neighbours will have to lose some space they've been using for this to happen. Probably about 1 foot at the end of the yard and 10cm nearer the house. Sounds like nothing but in the context of an already cramped space it's quite a lot! They have been owners for 6 years.

Are we within our rights to install a new fence in its correct position?

OP posts:
Thornhill58 · 04/04/2020 22:23

When you can talk to your solicitor because the last thing you want is for your neighbour to claim he has enjoyed the use of that foot for years.

user1487194234 · 04/04/2020 23:00

Did you know this before you moved in
Normally you would see a plan of what you were buying?

Original poster
Wurli30 · 04/04/2020 23:10

The boundary was obscured by outbuildings so even with the plans it would have been hard to verify.

It's more obvious now that they are gone and the rear of the property is open awaiting bifolds.

OP posts:
Original poster
Wurli30 · 04/04/2020 23:12

Too late for that unfortunately!

I'm hoping it will be amicable but I guess I need to know where I stand in general before I broach the subject. I do know I am responsible for the maintenance of that particular fence. I just need it to be in the correct position.

OP posts:
wehaveafloater · 05/04/2020 07:16

Talking to neighbours is key here . The last thing you want is to fall out over this. Good luck with it all.

Tinyhumansurvivalist · 05/04/2020 07:25

Talk to a surveyor and get the plans checked. My terrace has a similar issue with the boundary fencing, however when we got the plans assessed the fences have been confirmed as correct

Wrinklesareenhancing · 05/04/2020 09:52

You need to tread very carefully. It is not as simple as making it correct. Do you know when the fence was erected? If you move it you may find it’s no longer yours anyway. You may also find you need a court approved surveyor to confirm and you STILL don’t have a leg to stand on.
We are in the same boat and the law is very vague in this area. Your deeds may offer a clue, but may not be clear either due to their age.
I can tell you one thing, suggesting you are taking away 1 foot of someone’s garden, you’ll be very luck if they don’t get legal on you.

Wrinklesareenhancing · 05/04/2020 09:55

You said ‘as I see it’. I bet your neighbour won’t though.

JingleCatJingle · 05/04/2020 09:56

I’d check your house deeds, the boundaries will be defined there. We have house deeds from the 1930s and the boundaries are defined.

Lindy2 · 05/04/2020 10:04

I think you risk getting off to a very bad start with your neighbours for the sake if 1 foot of garden space.

Personally I would leave it. You viewed the garden as it was before you bought it and were ok with how much space you had.

SoupDragon · 05/04/2020 10:07

As I see it

Unfortunately, this is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is where it is shown on the deeds/title plan.

MissLemon18 · 05/04/2020 10:26

@Lindy2 Totally agree with you.

OP, unless this is your forever home, I think you're storing up trouble for the future. When you come to sell, you have to declare any disputes with neighbours, particularly ones over boundaries. You viewed and bought this house with the boundaries in their current positions, so you must have originally been happy enough with the dimensions as they are to have proceeded.

At the risk of quoting the Neighbours theme tune, 🙈 everybody needs good neighbours, particularly in the situation we're in with Corona. Is such a small amount of land worth a potential dispute, particularly if you need to sell down the line?

Wrinklesareenhancing · 05/04/2020 10:31

Believe it or not land registry and the Title plan is not necessarily accurate and should not be used! This is part of the issue.

Windyatthebeach · 05/04/2020 10:39

Our previously pleasant ndn 'turned' when we had a wall put at the front including the boundary fence being replaced...
We reclaimed our rightful boundary which included an extra........
Half a brick.
They never spoke to us again!!.

Grin No regrets though. Seek legal advice op. When our house was sold it wasn't declared as a feud!
johnd2 · 05/04/2020 10:40

All the people saying look at the deeds, almost all deeds and plans are purely to indicate which plot you have bought, not the boundaries.
You might be able to get a clue from them but boundaries are not that accurate from scaling a plan and also boundaries change over time, where fences are replaced and bushes and trees grow. Sometimes the boundary is just unclear.
If your neighbour is up for it you can get the additional land, but if they are not, i think you'll pay more to legal professionals than the land could ever be worth.
Perhaps mention the fence position and say you're thinking of replacing it, and if they are keen on the current position offer a few thousand to get the position you want?
Incidentally in our house the fence that belongs to us was put up by the neighbour and they put it a few inches to their side because our previous owner's fence was broken and overgrown. They have made it clear it's our fence so we are assuming the extra few inches is ours. If a new owner moved in and started asking for the inches back, we would not feel inclined to do so, although a lot would depend how they asked. Think from that point of view and your might have more of a chance in any negotiation.

SoupDragon · 05/04/2020 10:52

They have made it clear it's our fence so we are assuming the extra few inches is ours.

They aren't yours.

Movinghouseatlast · 05/04/2020 11:07

I had this with my neighbours. They moved in and announced that they felt the fence was in the wrong place.

We had lived in our house for 20 years by that point. We had plants growing in the land that my neighbour insisted was his.

What transpired was 6 months of utter hell in which I ended up on anti depressants. We ended up moving.

Now I'm assuming that you are not a psychotic bully like my neighbour. However, boundary disputes rarely go well. They are costly and the only winners are the solicitors.and surveyors.

I would recommend you look on the garden law website and post on the forum there. The people are very knowledgeable.

Your query is not straightforward. You need to know how long the fence has been there, who paid for it and who has maintained it. You also need evidence- so old photos of the boundary, declarations from previous owners. You also need a specialist boundary surveyor to look at it.

Original poster
Wurli30 · 05/04/2020 11:25

@johnd2

Yeah I think in this case it definitely isn't worth ruining the relationship and getting legal. Currently there's some good will towards us so I want to know where we stand before even broaching the subject.

If it was just based on the titles/deeds it would be much easier. The boundaries would all just follow on from the party walls and there would be no argument. Obviously that isn't quite the case!

OP posts:
RedRed9 · 05/04/2020 11:29

Could there be a ‘reason’ for the fences being slightly off? eg a tree stump that would otherwise need digging out? A meaningful plant that would have to be moved?

johnd2 · 05/04/2020 12:17

@SoupDragon legally maybe not, but next door aren't moving house any time soon so our assumption is very safe at the moment. Like i say if there next owners did ask for it back i wouldn't be impressed if they were demanding about it, also good luck using a 2 inch strip on the wrong side of a fence

Original poster
Wurli30 · 05/04/2020 12:32

@Movinghouseatlast

Yeah the problem I guess is that we're all technically the first owner-occupiers. The whole road was owned by a housing trust and all properties were initially on the same title.

I doubt there will be any historical evidence past where the neighbours have planted and painted things since they moved in.

If that space was inside the house it would be worth £10k, outside maybe a fraction of that

OP posts:
user1487194234 · 05/04/2020 13:59

I agree with a pp
Legal disputes of this kind rarely go well
As a solicitor even I don't like them

longearedbat · 05/04/2020 15:43

How do you know the fence isn't exactly where it's supposed to be? The fact it doesn't quite tally with the house is not a meaningful argument.

thecapitalsunited · 05/04/2020 19:51

You have to remember that if you scaled up the plans to the real dimensions, the line would be about a foot thick anyway so the plans wouldn’t be able to show small difference between fence line and party wall anyway.

Saz12 · 08/04/2020 22:49

Your best option would be to speak to neighbour and ask if they would be happy for you to move fence. More realistically, offer to buy the strip of garden from them. It’d be cheaper than legal optiobs

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