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Original poster

Elderly neighbour agreed to use ambulance chasing party wall surveyor

44 replies

Connie10 · 14/03/2020 00:46

Long story short we have submitted plans to building control for a loft conversion. We have had lots of letters from building companies / surveyors asking to quote for works. It didn't occur to me that our elderly neighbour, (in his mid 90's, lives alone) would also be approached regarding the party wall.

He has instructed one of these ambulance chasing firms to work on his behalf - as he was under the impression they was also working for us. They had also told him incorrectly regarding our proposed works (made them out to be worse than they are).

We are not in dispute - we have served him notice and he has agreed to the works. We have no legal need of a party wall surveyor. Are we still stuck with them fleecing us? If yes, what can we do to reduce bills? As you can tell by the hour, I'm losing sleep over this!

Note to say I'll be seeking legal advice when my solicitor opens on Monday. I'll also be reporting said company to Trading Standards.

OP posts:

fruitbrewhaha · 19/03/2020 19:50

Hmmm, he should have a party wall surveyor. You had the opportunity to recommend one when you issued the notice or talking it through with him. You were hoping not have to pay for one and now he has chosen one.

Hisashiburi · 19/03/2020 20:16

Surely he can't appoint one if he signed to say he was happy with the works as he has waived his right to invoke protection of the act?

Bugaboob · 19/03/2020 20:51

Surely he can't appoint one if he signed to say he was happy with the works as he has waived his right to invoke protection of the act

Of course he can! Being happy with the works and having someone do a ‘before me and after survey has nothing to do with it. You do not need to be in dispute, you just want to ensure your property is not damaged.

Hisashiburi · 19/03/2020 21:02

Yes but he has to pay for the surveyor rather than getting the OP to right?

ProfessorPollington · 19/03/2020 21:13

Nope OP has to pay by law.

nicknamehelp · 19/03/2020 21:25

speak to your surveyor for advice as.

Bugaboob · 19/03/2020 21:26

Yes but he has to pay for the surveyor rather than getting the OP to right?

Wrong. OP has to pay!

Bugaboob · 19/03/2020 21:28

I think the OP has misunderstood the process as

A) according to Government guidelines you only need a party wall surveyor if you are in dispute about the works.

That’s not correct.

Fourmagpies · 19/03/2020 21:38

Yes he does need a party wall surveyor but as the OP said they can all use the same one. Surveyors are impartial, you don't need separate ones. We found our party wall surveyor to be a life saver, she was really good at addressing our neighbour's concerns. We did end up using 2 surveyors as our other neighbour wanted to use someone they'd used before.

Bugaboob · 19/03/2020 21:52

Yes he does need a party wall surveyor but as the OP said they can all use the same one
Yes of course, but there is no obligation on them to do so. It’s his right and that’s a recognised cost of the work. Whether the co is any good is of course a different matter

BubblesBuddy · 19/03/2020 23:05

Would you use the same solicitor as your DH if you were getting a divorce? Obviously not. You are best advised to have a separate surveyor and keep the advice specifically tailored and dedicated to you.

The standard procedure is to dispute the agreement when it arrives. That triggers you having your own surveyor, who you have found, to look after your own interests. There is a time limit to dispute. No one should just accept the agreement unless it is totally comprehensive and meets all their requirements. This could be access, hours of work, standard of work, making good, timeliness of completion, materials used and lots more. Few will do this so you need your own surveyor to act in your interests, not in the interests of your neighbour. As you would if you were getting a divorce from DH!

BubblesBuddy · 19/03/2020 23:07

The person doing the building pays for both surveyors.

Hisashiburi · 20/03/2020 14:43

I am (obviously) not a party wall surveyor - is anyone on this thread one? Am getting confused as I was led to believe the below after talking to a surveyor about some potential works

I read the OP as being that they have already served the party wall agreement to the neighbour and he has signed to say happy with the works and at that point didnt mention being in dispute/getting a surveyor in..

If he had said they wanted to invoke the party wall act and be in dispute then of course the neighbour could have chosen any surveyor that they wanted to and of course the OP should have to pay for that. However I read the OP as that the neighbour had signed the acknowledgement saying he was happy (and thus not in dispute/invoking the party wall act) and wouldn't have recourse to get the OP to pay for a surveyor. If he wanted OP to pay for a surveyor, then he should have stipulated that in the original party wall acknowledgement form.

Obviously being in dispute has negative connotations but not in the party wall context, it is just that the neighbour wants to be be protected by having a surveyor assess things pre and post build.

This is what I have been led to believe by 2 different party wall surveyors. Are there any other surveyors who could clarify this?

Hisashiburi · 20/03/2020 14:44

Apologies, my phone doesn't seem to post with any paragraphs

BubblesBuddy · 20/03/2020 15:05

You are essentially correct. DH isn’t a party wall surveyor but his firm has them.

The great difficulty here is that the OP stood over him with neighbours present and he signed. He’s elderly. The agreement should have been delivered to him and he should have had time to reflect on it and decide, with advice, on what to do. He was not given this option. That was wrong. It’s a form of coercion to stand over an elderly person with witnesses and not explain the process of dispute to them.

Disputing means you get your own surveyor to look after your interests. The initial agreement rarely does this satisfactorily. The gentleman in this case should be allowed to reflect on the agreement and certainly could argue this time was afforded him. That’s wrong. It also meant the OP didn’t have to pay and by standing over the elderly gentlemen the OP effectively ensured the agreement was signed there and then. The neighbours who witnessed probably had no idea about party wall agreements and disputes either.

We do not know who told this neighbour to get a surveyor, but he has. In the circumstances that is fair. Normally he would have reflected on the agreement and contacted someone within the time scale.

Your summary is correct but in this case the OP has not acted fairly.

Hisashiburi · 20/03/2020 15:41

Thanks for clarifying. I believe the notices also have the link for further information for people to read so it is a shame that the gentleman didnt have the chance to read through and digest it properly.

I have also been informed that the royal institute of surveyors offer a free 30 minute conversation with a party wall surveyor if anyone needs it, either as the building or adjoining owner. Just in case anyone has served a notice or has been served with one.

BubblesBuddy · 20/03/2020 18:26

I think it’s vital that anyone receiving a notice does understand their rights and isn’t coerced into signing by the document being put in front of them by the neighbour weilding a pen It isn’t difficult to arrange a party wall agreement with two impartial surveyors negotiating but the person receiving the initial proposal has to be given time to understand and consider their options.

missfliss · 21/03/2020 14:23

don't worry OP I know what you are getting at. Probably a good idea to ask your neighbour to consider choosing a PW surveyor from a RICs recommended list. that way if he does want a surveyor then as you say that is fine, you just know that its a reputable firm and not one of the chancers

TPWC2020 · 26/07/2020 09:18

@Connie10
Sorry I have seen all of this so late. I’m a party wall surveyor and I totally understand the OP’s frustrations.
Ambulance chasing party wall surveyors are simple out of order, and I’m fighting them. The party wall community isn’t doing enough to confront them. The OP should have had the right to approach her neighbour in her own way, and in her own time. The ambulance chasing surveyors take away this right and can encourage a dispute.
The neighbour is at liberty to appoint his own surveyor, but as the OP has said, it should be a reputable surveyor. The ambulance chasers are interested in the cash, and every time they are appointed, cash pours into their pockets and they continue their poor unethical behaviour.

If you can get any copies of ambulance chasing letters, please send them to me [email protected]
I can then take action, including reporting them to RICS, FPWS and also ‘naming and shaming’.

I have an idea I’m working on. I am getting in place an ethical charter where surveyors promise not to ambulance chase. It will also address other unethical behaviour suitable in other posts. Surveyors that sign up can then be seen as ethical and are simply struck off if there are any breaches.
Lastly, once appointed an ambulance chaser can’t be sacked. However, I have got round this because the ambulance chaser is usually appointed before you serve a notice. So, I served notice, and the neighbour consented subject to receiving a party wall agreement. This is the same as an award, made by a suitable surveyor. It is however made on an amicable basis. It is exactly the same, safeguarding the neighbour’s interests etc.

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