Structural survey making me need all of the chocolate and a cry...

[Kittypillar]

So our buyers structural survey has flagged an issue with our garden walls. They're about as old as our house probably (80+ years) so we weren't exactly shocked but this report honestly reads like a disaster film - "serious health and safety risk to the owners and general public" etc! Tiny bit dramatic we thought, but we also acknowledge they are pretty old and probably do need work, so we are having a conversation with our buyers about it. There are several walls that need demolishing and replacing apparently.

Anyway, our buyers are now getting quotes to get repairs done but they've told us the quotes they're getting are for full replacement walls (1.8m high and for all three walls of +10m long, gulp!) . A couple of our neighbours who have replaced similar walls have gone for a 9/10 inch wall with fencing on top, which they've told us was far more reasonably priced. They warned us we'd be looking at a fortune to replace all the walls fully, so I'm dreading these quotes coming in... Are we in a position to suggest this smaller wall + fence option to our buyers while they get quotes, or do we just have to let them get on with it and negotiate when they approach us with them? First time I've ever sold a house so I'm very very a bit anxious about it and sellers have (so far) seemed very reasonable, so we don't want to create any ill-feeling if we can help it. Would love to hear any similar stories about how other people have navigated similar horror stories created from a survey when selling...

Has the survey downvalued your house as result? What does your agent say?

You could try getting your own quotes for both options? And then discuss it with them. It’s an unexpected cost and a fence is a big change from a wall though, so I’d be expecting them to negotiate towards reducing by the price of walls.

Surely if is as bad as the survey suggests then there must be some visible indication that the walls need work. It cant be a total surprise to your buyer, what value did the survey put on your house?
And definitely get your own quotes.

@TheCrowFromBelow agent didn't tell us much to be honest! Just that the survey had flagged this issue and they wanted it sorted before we exchanged, then sent us the survey. I'll have to ring them back and ask as they never mentioned anything about the value of the house. But then, like @ChipotleBlessing says, it is an unexpected cost so I'm suspecting it might have an impact. We are expecting we'll probably have to reduce the price for them, although we're nervous as to what extent from the sounds of what they're getting quotes for. I suppose we're just nervous about it all and not sure how to approach it with them and keeping everyone as happy as is possible in such a situation...!

Surely if is as bad as the survey suggests then there must be some visible indication that the walls need work. It cant be a total surprise to your buyer, what value did the survey put on your house?

I mean, you'd think so. Like I said, the walls are clearly quite old! But who knows if they noticed or thought about it much? We had it in our minds eye as something we'd have to sort in the future if we were there long term.

Get your own quotes for the work. I’m very much a cynic, but your buyers could have a “builder friend” knock up a pricey quote and ask you to reduce the selling price based on that. You’ll end up out of pocket in that scenario.
You could offer to pay for a replacement of your own design prior to exchange, giving you the option to spend what you like and install what you like.
You don’t HAVE to reduce the price for any reason, you could take the no negotiation route if you wanted to.

Sorry @TheCrowFromBelow, forgot to add, we have absolutely no idea what the house was valued at from their survey - they haven't shared that information with us. The walls were inspected by a structural engineer for an additional structural survey they organised. Ths was because the surveyor flagged it as a potential issue when they had their homebuyers one done, along with a few other things they've also had checked out (but all turned out pretty much fine, thank goodness)...

Get your own quotes for the work. I’m very much a cynic, but your buyers could have a “builder friend” knock up a pricey quote and ask you to reduce the selling price based on that. You’ll end up out of pocket in that scenario.

Never even considered that! We'll also get our own quotes then...

Stupid question but are they definitely all walls that you have responsibility for? They don't belong to neighbours or anything? I would definitely get your own quotes, both for like for like and a reduced version. A high brick wall at one of our old places (typical London docklands 1990s quality construction) fell down in the night, it absolutely would have killed someone if they'd been near it

I had the same type of phrasing when I bought my house, which had brick walls either side that were very wobbly. But I did not ask the sellers to knock any money off.
There was an issue that it wasn't clear on the deeds and neither neighbor could say who was responsible for which side - it would be unusual that you are responsible for all three sides. But I had anticipated this and figured that as I had most to gain (small children and pets) that I was prepared to pay for it. Brick would have been prohibitively expensive so I replaced the walls with fencing. Including removal of the brick it was around £2400 (garden is over 25m deep).

Should add I tried to get the neighbors to split the bill but no joy. One neighbour was very unpleasant about the whole thing.

How desperate are you for this sale to go through? Theyre out of pocket already with the surveys so are invested...Personally I would say that of course the walls are old and that they didnt need a survey to see that when they viewed and offered. I wouldnt expect a reduction for that - but offer to get some quotes etc yourself but suggest you will be opting for the cheapest option which may be just removing them, this making it their problem!

We are clarifying with our solicitor on two of the walls. One is a party wall at the bottom of our garden, so we share it with a neighbour. The other is a wall that runs along the left side of our house with an alleyway alongside it (we are pretty certain this will be our responsibility but double checking as the alley is an access to garages for several properties on the road).

The third is to the front of our house, so we aren't really questioning that one is our responsibility to sort.

Gosh that's scary @Neighneigh! We really didn't think it was at that sort of extent safety wise, although this survey certainly seems to imply its a hazard! Definitely wouldn't want it to get to that point.

Thanks for the advice @Pipandmum, that's helpful. Prohibitively expensive is definitely our concern - we feel we should probably lower the price for the purpose of making it all safe, so demolishing old wall, getting rid of vegetation, putting up something, such a smaller wall + fencing. However my DH is arguing replacing entirely with wall would just be a cosmetic desire for them, not a safety issue (which we'd accept responsibility for) and just not necessary.

@palacegirl77 we're relatively keen to do the move. It's not absolutely imperative we do though. We don't mind negotiating with them if necessary but I'm nervous about what their expectations are really...

I think it’s fair that they get prices for replacement walls to replicate what’s there. Would you expect cheap fences instead?

Most of you, I suspect, don’t understand the engineering requirements of high walls. They need foundations, like a house. They must withstand all the elements. If your walls are not safe, would you be happy for the public to walk near them? Or a child? So many people ignore walls but they can be pushed out of shape by ground conditions and poor workmanship. Never mind not being designed properly. Often the case with retaining walls.

I would get your own quotes but you don’t have an engineering design. So Mr Builder is going to quote for what specification? You don’t have one. How deep should the foundations be? You don’t know that either. Walls are, in effect, a building. They must be build to appropriate standards and be safe.

In the circumstances you don’t have the report. Wait for the estimates to be supplied. Ask for details. Then negotiate. These walls will have bricks on both sides too. Not blocks on the inner wall as in a house. You will need piers too and what about demolition costs? This will be a lot of money. House insurance? Are they covered? It’s negligent to do nothing and if they collapse and injure someone, what then?

You must have known they were in bad nick. It’s part of house maintenance to deal with it.

@bubblesbuddy absolutely not disputing we would do nothing, as I said earlier we knew it was an old-ish wall. It definitely wasn't giving us any indication it was going to fall apart at any touch though, otherwise we would have done something about it earlier. And personally, if we had, we would have absolutely gone with a smaller wall + fencing on top as that's exactly what our neighbours have done. It definitely wouldn't have bothered us it was fencing as long as it was safe and secure.

Sorry that should be *absolutely not saying we would do nothing.

We absolutely understand if it needs sorting and are happy to negotiate with the buyers on it. It isn't a surprise the wall is old (that would have been evident to them on viewing as well) but it was a surprise to hear the report describing it so dramatically.

I had a similar thing on a structural survey I had carried out on a house with a walled garden I wanted to buy. In the end I backed out of the sale as the seller refused to drop the price. Be careful. Sometimes houses are more hassle than they are worth to buy.

@madcatladyforever ah that's a shame that happened to you. We definitely aren't going to be refusing point blank to drop the price if needs be - if it has to be done, it would be the case of any other seller that might follow. We're just nervous it might go to an extent where we struggle to make it work with our onward purchase as well. We absolutely don't want to be stubborn (and can see it from their perspective), it would genuinely be a case of can't rather than won't if it comes to a dramatic figure but I guess then that'll just be the way it goes and not much we can do...

I would suggest getting quotes for what you would be willing to accept to replace the walls, and then be willing to agree to drop by that much as that’s what you would have spent to replace if you were staying.
I know nothing about walls, but our survey came back with some fairly dire things, although not health and safety related, and we’ve done nothing but the house is still standing 18 months later!

Maybe negotiate some of the price off the sale price, but don't end up paying the full price for them to have lovely new walls. It isn't up to you to pay for something that you'll receive no benefit from.

IME surveys can make it sound worse than it is to cover their own backs if something goes wrong after exchange. Get a builder round to have a look, it might just need some repointing an rebuilding in a few sections which would be cheaper.

If it were me I would first of all find out for definite which ones I was responsible for, and have them checked by someone who knows what they are talking about, to see if they really are knackered. Then I would get a quote for replacing them with wooden fencing. This in itself will be quite costly as there will be a lot of old brick to remove (Replacing them with brick I think would be prohibitive.) I would offer to reduce the sale price by the amount quoted. If they don't want to do that, take the house off the market, get the work done yourself, and re-market. The trouble is, you are possibly going to have this problem again if these buyers back out, and you can bet if they get the quote they will do it like for like (which could be 5 figure sums), but then would actually get it done in wood and not brick, thereby making themselves a good saving.

I don't think you should bear the full cost - they will get the benefit of new walls that they won't then need to replace for many years. I think half the cost of the essential work is reasonable

You really don’t need to bow down to them on this!

Just say you appreciate the walls might need replacing one day but you think the house price is still fair and so are not willing to negotiate.

I guess you could knock off a small sum if you get desperate... But what did the survey value the property at?

Do not agree to do the work for them under any circumstances. I say this as an ex property lawyer.