I urgently need a new boiler, please help!

[trickyex]

My boiler has died and I need to replace it urgently.
I have had two quotes so far and quite conflicting advice.
First plumber says fit a system boiler, he knows my house/system and thinks they are better boilers, that heat-only are out of date and wont last. He rates Vaillant. His quote is around 3.9K (ouch).
Second plumber says replace with another conventional boiler, he rates Worc Bosch. Quote is 2.5K ish.
We have a megaflo type cylinder in the airing cupboard plus a good pump in the airing cupboard (recently installed) as the current boiler was struggling to heat all the radiators. Its a big house (5 beds) with high ceilings.
Which rates these two boiler suppliers plus Veissman (first plumber doesnt like them, second fits on WBosch).

I am now quite confused and need to make a decision fast - the house is very cold.

Please share your thoughts, before my head explodes and our feet freeze...
TIA

Veissman

Viessman customer services are a bit crap for installers in terms of parts/if anything goes wrong.

The company I work for rates Worcester Bosch. We’ve just fitted one in my in laws house

Worcs Bosch get rave reviews but from my research it seems they contain aluminium heat exchangers whereas the Viessmann and Vaillant are stainless steel - we live in a hard water area so this is probably quite important. This is what killed my current boiler.

First plumber says fit a system boiler, he knows my house/system and thinks they are better boilers, that heat-only are out of date and wont last.

System boilers are more complex than conventional heat only boilers. There is more inside to go wrong.

We had Worcester Bosche combi and it was about 3k 10 years ago but very reliable.

I've just had a new boiler fitted (our house sounds very similar to yours).
Every quote we had said Worcester Bosch combi.
Only been in a couple of weeks so can't tell you if they were right !

Thanks for all the comments, have booked another plumber to have a look and see what he thinks. He fits various boilers and has very good reviews so will see what he has to say.
It seems that any of the three suppliers would be ok but am still really unsure whether to stick with a heat only boiler or go with a system boiler and the added cost.

We cant have a combi as we already have a cylinder and are not set up for a combi but good to hear more good reviews of W Bosch.

I googled (cos I had no idea what they were) and found this - you may have already seen it, but it seems quite helpful.

www.boilerguide.co.uk/system-boilers-explained

Hi trickyex.

Hope this advice helps - I am a gas engineer, with many years of experience)

So long as the pump in your airing cupboard is ok, as you said, and the system is properly flushed and treated with rust inhibitors, there is no real benefit to having a system boiler fitted instead of a regular one, but it will cost substantially more (3.9k is still excessive in my view). It will also take longer to be fitted, not great in winter.

Ignore comments about combis. With a mega flo fitted, you have the best hot water system already.

I dont rate Viessmann either. Worcester are ok, but are, IMHO, bit overpriced for what they are. Ideal are good boilers, cheaper, 10 year warranties.

Comment about regular boilers not lasting - absolute tosh. If a system filter is fitted, and system is properly cleaned, they are simpler and can last longer than a system boiler.

Good luck

Andy

Boilerguide.co.uk isn’t what it seems. Its just another 3rd party looking to make a fee from traders.
They make money by posting new boiler job leads to heating engineers. They charge about 30 quid a time and up to 3 people can bid for the lead.
Sure the webpage looks great but there’s no substance behind it. It’s not a real gas boiler/central heating company.

Hi. I'm a gas safe registered engineer and totally agree with Mrcardigan.
Stay with the heat only boiler. The price is of £3.9k is excessive. You should looking at a too price of £2.5k supply and fit in my opinion.

All the best

Both quotes are over the top, everyone needs to earn money but they are excessive for a like for like swap.

Don't go Worcester, the new boilers aren't much kop people fit them as they are an easy sell due to the marketing.

I strongly suggest looking at vaillant, Atag, or intergas.

The Atag and intergas (go for the eco RF or xclusive) both have a 10 year warranty.

Go for a system boiler, there isn t any more inside To go wrong, the difference is that a system boiler is pressurised and means it does not have an auto top up. The plus side of a system boiler is that it's actually a cleaner system.

Without a power flush any of the above boilers should be installed for between 1700 and 2000.

I've just had an eco RF installed and it was 2500, but this included a Honeywell Evo home.

A friend of mine just had an Atag installed just a basic like for like swap and was £1700,he had the option of a valiant for the same price but the vaillant would have had 3 years less warranty.

Our boiler (Worcester Highflow 400) broke down before Christmas and first gas safe plumber did a botch repairs. We decided to replaced the boiler (20 year old and serviced 20+ radiators). We have 3 quotes with 3 different recommendations of make of boilers ( Worcester, Villiant, and Veissman). Each claimed they are better than others. All quotes were within £300 of each other. In the end we checked out the cost of the recommended boilers, flue kits etc and availability of parts online and picked the gas safe engineer we feel comfortable with ( and negotiate d a small reduction in his quote). We are of the opinion that boilers, like motor cars, dont last forever. We chose the up-to-date version of Worsester with Honeywell programmer because that meant minimum alteration to existing pipe works and walls, and comes with 5 years warranty provided it is serviced by qualified personnel. It all went well

Hi, through prior experence i'd opt for a Valliant Boiler , ive had a combi for 6yrs now , fitted many over the yrs, if and only if its neglected , then spares are reasonable and easy to change .

What people generally refer to as a 'System Boiler' is essentially a heat only boiler but it also contains the pump and would generally be fitted to a sealed, pressurised system, like a combi boiler would. Worcester System boilers are generally the same as their combi boilers with some bits taken out. Converting your system to a sealed, pressurised system may be an involved job. Assuming you have an open vented system, it means taking out your expansion tank and fitting an expansion vessel somewhere, a pressure relief valve and pipework to outside, and a means of refilling the system, usually a metal braided hose with one or two taps and a pressure gauge. This obviously adds cost to a boiler install.

However, if your existing system works (worked) fine, there is no need to complicate things further. Sometimes, converting an old system to a pressurised system can cause other issues. For example, you might find leaks appear that you never knew you had beforehand. Old radiator valves can be a nightmare for this.

The simplest option would be to replace your boiler with a Worcester or Vaillant. See Which. A lot of the long warranties on other brands will not be worth the paper they're written on, and often are full of exclusions, or only cover the main heat exchanger. I can't see any boiler manufacturer happily swapping a £500 heat exchanger in a boiler that's 10 years old. I work for a national company, and I have no allegiance to any particular brand. What I can tell you is that Worcester and Vaillant boilers are better built and have better backup than any other brand I deal with. I also see how many 'Warranty' claims get rejected, and we stand the cost.

That being said, the most important factor in any boiler install is making sure your system is clean, and chemically treated to prevent corrosion. Adding a filter on the return back to the boiler will also increase longevity.

At the end of the day, advice is advice, but you're in your heating engineer's hands. Make sure he shows you his Gas Safe card!

Good luck, hope you're warm soon!

Thanks everyone, very interesting reading - who knew!!
I am now more confused as I thought we had a system boiler.
We have no tank in the loft, the system is pressurised and we have an expansion vessel next to the boiler, which is a Glowworm flexicom 35kw.

It has had two power flushes.
I will try to post a pic here, I have another engineer coming soon so would like to seem like I have a decent idea of what I have and what I need!

Cant seem to load a pic buy having ,looked again it looks like we have an open vented system.

Just another idea... There's also the option of linking the heating system to solar panels

Ok, so you already have a system boiler.

It really should be an easy straight forward swap out.

Should easily be 2k or less

A vaillant boiler to cover Your needs is 1500 www.mrcentralheating.co.uk/vaillant-ecotec-plus-637-system-boiler-0010021835?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA1L_xBRA2EiwAgcLKA5HC7OCk4FyUFqP-QTrdaEqgmcqsmIPnAhcsyqqqlv6ussB57bX-3BoCF2YQAvD_BwE

It should then be a days labour, plus the cost of a system filter.

So around £2100ish imo

35kw is a big system boiler, how many rads do you have in the house? I have a 4 bed house with 11 rads and I only require an 18kw system boiler.

Those quotes seem really high. We recently had a conventional boiler system replaced with a combi as well as a new radiator installed and 3 rads changed (we supplied the rads) and it cost £2300. There are some companies who offer interest free monthly payments for new boiler installations, although I'm not sure how they compare price wise.

Out of interest, what's wrong with the Flexicom you've got? Why can't it be fixed?

The heat exchanger has gone and water got into the boiler. I would have gladly repaired it, I much prefer to make do and mend, but both engineers so far have said it cant be fixed.
So from the pic, could some kind soul please confirm what system I do have?
I agree the quotes are high, the second engineer whose opinion I do trust and quoted for a W Bosch boiler is from a good large company which does commercial work so they would cost more.

I think I have open vented and what I need is either heat only (like with like?) or system.
The house has 5 beds and a very long run from the boiler to the airing cupboard hence the high wattage.

From the presence of the big red expansion vessel, I'd say that you have an unvented system, not open vented.