Very old house - interior doors

[cafenoirbiscuit]

We are about to move into a 500 year old house. It was modernised in the 1960s and all existing features were removed or plastered over. It currently has flimsy mahogany coloured 1960s doors which we’d like to change.

Anyone got any suggestions for what would work ? I’m thinking oak but what style? And do we have oak door frames or white ones ?

TIA

Don't tell the council anything before the indemnity policy is in place! That would invalidate it.

The kitchen and bathroom weren't covered by the listing so they've been done.
And we repaired all the windows which were rotten. But we had to repair (strictly not replace) so they've all got pretty much a sliver of the original wood in them and the new windows were built around those bits and look exactly the same as the old ones.
Once do the windows is stained glass and one of the little bits of glass fell out and broke and we had a devil of a job trying to get a new tiny bit of glass the right colour.

Expensive and a lengthy process.
But that's what you get when you have an old house I guess!

Any works to a listed building without consent are a criminal offence and can be enforced against you as a new owner, even though you didn't do it. An indemnity policy would not prevent the council enforcing either. It may mean that you need to pay less given the risks you would be taking on. What works have happened without consent?

Tread carefully. Befriend the conservation officer and get them onside. They may also instruct you with what to do with the door design so I wouldn't get too far down the track before you consult them.

You can decorate, re do kitchen bathroom etc without consent, as long as they aren't the originals. What you need consent for is to remove or change existing features or change the structure of the building.

What you're basically doing is maintaining it for historical interests. No one gives a shit about a nineteen eighties kitchen or whatever in a several year old house. What they care about is if you start ripping the original features out.

The issue you have is someone has done that already. And if it was done post listing, as it seems it was, then you're in for replacing it. As per the original as far as possible.

Kitchens, bathrooms etc are not relevant as said, unless originals, and for the main reason the government wishes these buildings to be habitable, not to fall into ruin with no one maintains them.

You also need permission to build on the grounds, Becayse effectively that's within the listing, we have some additions and out buildings from the previous owners but they have been done to look identical to the original building.

Buildings Conservation departments have been so cut that nobody’s ever going to inquire what you’ve done inside. However, you have a responsibility towards your old house and must not destroy or damage the fabric. We have replaced nasty modern doors with reclaimed ones more in keeping.

...and yet heritage crime was the fastest growing category of prosecutions in 2018. I’ve not yet seen an indemnity policy which is much use for criminals.

Bluntness usually provides good info but is misleading in this case. Renovation of kitchens and bathrooms are high risk for heritage crime precisely because people think they don’t need permission. New wiring, plumbing and ventilation can all cause irreversible damage to assets.

Historic England have produced good guidance available on their website. Misinformation is so common.

For example, MurrayTheMonk states that their kitchen and bathroom weren’t covered by their listing and so they were able to “do” these rooms. This is dangerously incorrect. The text of a listing serves only to identify the building. It does not list the rooms or features which subject to protection by the listing. Many buildings were not even internally inspected when the listings were compiled however may have been inspected and recorded in great detail in the interim period.

Incidentally, OliviaBenson, I am not aware of a single instance where the current owner of a building has been held criminally accountable for the actions of a previous owner unless they were complicit in the crime (Parent and sibling for example)

Probably not criminally responsible but there are certainly more cases of enforcement action being taken to new owners to restore things that they didn't do.

You can’t be held criminally responsible for someone else’s actions. Just liable for rectifying the effects.

Doesn't it? Because our listing specifically mentions the features we can't alter-wood panelling etc etc...
The listing is for the front older portion of our house not for the later additions at the back which contain kitchen and bathroom.

We were certainly allowed to do our kitchen, and will be doing the bathroom this year, the plumbing exists and no new ventilation is required. I've never heard of anyone where lbc is required to rip out some nineteen eighties kitchen and replace it.

I would also add as before, the government wants people to live in these bukdings. Because it's the inhabitants who maintain them. They don't want them to fall into disrepair and lay abandoned. So yes things like decorating, replacing kitchens and bathrooms etc are fine unless it's original. You need consent if you wish to do something to the fabric of the building that is effectively going to be irreversible.

That's what I thought too bluntness.
So anything outside ish or original needs permission for alteration but your avocado bathroom suite is of no interest to the conservation officer. Tbh there is only one guy for the entire county just at the moment. I'm not sure they are on top of much at all around here anyway.

Yes you can't change the structure, you can't remove original fix and fit etc, without permission, that's what you're maintaining for historical interest, but you can remove and replace your avocado bathroom suite. No one is interested in preserving that. That's not what the listing is for.

As said the whole point is these homes need to remain habitable. If you can't even replace your shite kitchen, then no one would wish to buy them. They'd fall into disrepair and be abandoned. That's not what anyone wants. Look at any listed home on line and they all have modern kitchens and bathrooms, which says it all.

There is always some scaremongering on these threads. Yes you have a responsibility, yes you'd likely be responsible for restoring anything like original doors if ripped out post listing, but putting up wallpaper, painting the walls internally, new flooring ( as long as doesn't damage anything original) replacing your kitchen or bathroom etc, does not require consent.

Thr goverment doesn't want to make it so onerous you can't live in these properties, and have to live with peeling walls, and knackered bathrooms and kitchens. The only way to preserve them for historical interest, is to enable people to want to live in them.

This is so interesting. A few days ago I was a bit despondent about things but it seems now that we will be able to do some restoration.
There are 3 huge fireplaces just boarded up and plastered over and I’m longing to see what’s behind 😊

MurrayTheMonk, sorry, but you are fundamentally incorrect. Read my previous post and the Historic England guidance. The listing text is for identification purposes only. The entire property interior, exterior and curtilage (grounds) are subject to the restrictions imposed by the category of listing in question unless the listing text specifically defines exclusions. The only theoretical exclusion is for buildings and structures within the curtilage and detached from the main building and constructed post 1948.

Instead of relying on well-intentioned hearsay, why not actually read the guidance from the relevant authority, Historic England. For example, renewing kitchens: historicengland.org.uk/advice/your-home/making-changes-your-property/types-of-work/update-my-kitchen/

And Bluntness, I agree with almost everything that you say but there are always exceptions and many people are simply not experienced enough to judge what is of heritage relevance in their houses. Many tragic crimes are committed unknowingly every day. Examples I see frequently are Georgian lime lath plaster being removed and replaced by board, fragments of early wall coverings, wall paintings, wallpapers being stripped, Victorian floorboards, cornices and coving in Tudor or Georgian houses being ripped out because they are “not original” Etc etc. People in listed properties need to get advice and not just assume. The shortage of qualified conservation officer advisors is worrying however there is very good primary advice available via HE, the planning portal and local authority websites.

I've consulted the local conservation officer at every point before doing anything. But thanks 🤷🏽‍♀️.

I just don't want him to physically come to the house largely because the previous owner painted some panelling I think they shouldn't have and It will be a costly nightmare to strip it back again.

Its all personal choice unless its a listed property .
Depending on the type of property farmhouses usually had frame ledge and braced door but if it was a more grand house they would have had a more fancy doors on the ground floor six panel door four Large panels bottom two smaller top . older properties look better with salvaged door new modern reproduction just don't look right especially with new door furniture . salvage yards eBay salvo website all good for reclaimed doors