Howdens vs Wickes design service

[taybert]

Howdens have done a design for my proposed new kitchen and I’m a bit disappointed with it. It feels as if she’s not really designed much, it just feels a bit thrown together. I’ve gone back to her with some notes/ideas so we’ll see what she comes up with but I’ve also booked for Wickes to have a look.

Has anyone changed their design with Howdens successfully? How does wickes compare in terms of design?

I’m feeling a bit deflated with the design, I was really excited!

I went to wickes for measuring our kitchen the guy was very thorough, and did a list of exactly what units we would need we then went to the store to get it put into a picture with tweaking which he did with measurements and prices per unit, I know its bad and cheeky but we took all the paperwork to DIY kitchen store and they came out £2000 cheaper for nicer units

As a kitchen designer with 20 years experience in the industry, it's occasionally something of a struggle to get a feel for what a customer wants in their new kitchen; we can't read minds and

If you want something changing, be honest with them and tell them what you think. Sometimes the most valuable thing that you can say is "I really don't like that" .. you're not going to hurt the designers feelings or give them sleepless nights. :)

Remember that it's your kitchen and they want your business; they'll accommodate any change that you want if it's feasible and safe to do so.

I definitely understand you’re not mind readers! At the same time I’m not a kitchen designer, I don’t really know how everything works and fits together, for example how a corner unit fits, different clearances required etc. I can look at pages and pages of line drawings of units but it still doesn’t really give me an idea of how those units work or what they’re good for. I’d also expect honesty in the other direction so if my list of desirable features isn’t realistic, I’d expect them to say and give me different solutions, rather than do a design with everything I said I wanted but the fridge and pan drawers miles from the oven and no cutlery drawer. Which is what I got. I understand that a “free” design service with a kitchen is never going to be as good as paying an independent designer, but I would expect slightly more than just someone who knows how to use the CAD programme.

I know I sound really hard work but I don’t feel that I am really- I only want a pretty standard kitchen design that’s workable and looks nice. I don’t want anything particularly clever, innovative or unusual.

I’ve fed back and she has changed the design and it’s an improvement but it still doesn’t look right.

Hmm, if she's missing out basics like cutlery drawers then it does sound like your designer might not be the best in the world.

Most kitchen designs are a compromise, sadly .. we're limited to the sizes of the furniture that our suppliers offer (excluding bespoke ofc) and legal/recommended clearances for gas/water/electric and ventilation.

It's often a case of sacrificing either layout, symmetry and function but you're absolutely right that it's down to the designer to explain why they've deviated from your requirements so that you can make an informed decision on what's most important to you.

You mention that it doesn't look "right"; could you expand on that for me? .. if you've an image of the design and don't mind sharing, I'd like to have a look. It's a constant learning curve in the kitchen design world :)

I think Wickes is much better than Howdens. We went to both for our kitchen and the choice at Howdens was a bit meh. Remember, Howdens pass on a cut of the price to your builders so your builders will be very keen that you use them. Go to both and see what you like best, that's the definition of swapping around.

Even with the builder's cut, our Wickes kitchen was only a few hundred cheaper. Ask the planner when the sale is on and also when the extra discount weekend is.

Currently having my kitchen fitted by Wickes now. From design team to installation I so far can't fault them at all

Ours was designed by Wickes but they did miss a few really glaring issues with the kitchen design - our corner cupboard can't open much on one side because the handle design on the kitchen cupboards blocks it opening (we've taken the offending handle off as an interim measure), and they didn't really work in fridge door width opening very well. I love the kitchen finish - and that's stood up well to the abuse meeted out in this house - but the design, well it was never going to set the world alight in the tiny kitchen we have, but has some issues that really should have been pre-empted.

I’ve recently had a Howden’s kitchen and the designer was great. He suggested all sorts of things that I hadn’t thought of. He e-mailed me the plans then I went in to see them on a big screen with him and he made the amendments I wanted while I sat there. He was also very open about the cost and my builder’s only involvement was placing the order for me.

MTJTD there’s a couple of things- initially she had the American fridge freezer at the end of the run with a larder at one side and a box over the top but then it just finished so nothing right at the end- that looked unfinished. She’s put another unit down the other side now but because it’s on the end of a run of standard height units and worktop it just looks a bit stuck on the end out on its own (and is slightly arc de triomphe-esque) It also feels too far from the oven. Also the sink is under the window but she hadn’t put it so it was central compared to the window so it looked odd to my eye. This is a shorter wall due to a doorway but there’s about 30cm spare at the end so I feel if she jiggled the unit sizes around a bit (they do quite a range of widths) she could make it all fit better. There are some large pan drawers which I asked for but they’re not next to the oven and they’d be a pretty massive cutlery drawer.

There will be compromises I’m sure, I suspect the fridge answer is to put it in a run of taller units but then we’d lose worktop.

Anyway, she’s invited me in so we can do it together to reduce the mind reading required .

Ouch. American Fridge/Freezers are the bane of the kitchen designer's life .. they stick out so far from the rest of the units and (depending on their height) can often only be built around using extra tall larder cabinets.

Getting the sink central to the window usually depends on the cabinet sizes underneath accommodating the bowl drop and may be limited by adjacent water-based appliances (dishwasher, laundry).

Aye, 300mm of wasted space is a lot, could definitely fit better.

In most ranges you can get an internal cutlery drawer that will go into standard base units so that you don't have to have a massive cutlery drawer or add another full drawer unit.

Good luck!

I think I’ve made the sink work with different sized units but I could be missing something- from my reckoning we might end up with a narrow unit to even it out but then we’ve got 300mm spare at one side so can afford to add that in...

Out of interest, is there a fridge/freezer solution I’m missing? I don’t really want integrated as they tend to be smaller. Really all I want is a big fridge that’s easy to see what’s inside. The freezer space is less important as we don’t have too much frozen and have a separate chest freezer elsewhere for the odd half lamb... I’m not wed to the aesthetics of an American fridge freezer, it just seemed to solve my practical requirements best.

planner.diy-kitchens.com/

put in your measurements and play around with the design. You could use something designed on this site with Howden's but I would really suggest you think about buying from DIY kitchens.

My fitter recommended Howden's but then was really impressed with the cabinets from DIY - they come fully made up and are really sturdy with solid backs rather than hardboard which really helps with rigidity 'of the unit. Howden's only have hardboard backs.

Fitter now recommends DIY. They don't do designs but will check your design works and make suggestions. The software also tell you if there are any conflicts with doors etc.

I went to my local Howdens they were shite, the Howdens in the next town were brilliant.

I had decided that I wanted a wine fridge the original guy oh ok, the new guy welllllllllllllllll and then told me a pull out larder was a better use of space.

Well, american freezers tend to be 900mm wide and are often "boxed in" using a 900mm-1000mm bridging cabinet over the top and a (minimum) 300mm larder unit either side of the F/F with 4 x 16-18mm decor clad on panels (two inside next to the appliance, two on the exposed ends of the larder (unless they're wall-to-wall).

That's ~1600mm of your kitchen; the larders and the bridging cabinet are usable storage, but you sacrifice worktop space to get that balanced aesthetic.

The simple solution is a two separate tall integrated appliances in the configuration that suits your lifestyle best. Perhaps 1 tall fridge and 1 70/30 fridge/freezer? .. I like putting 70/30 integrated tall appliances into a run with base units as the bottom door size matches the base units.

You'd use up ~1240 mm of your kitchen run, allowing you ~350mm more usable worktop with base units below & wall units above.

May make it easier to configure your units to a more accessible layout; tough to say without seeing the design.

Also probably considerably cheaper than boxing in an American Style F/F; the tall panels tend to be quite pricey, especially on a painted kitchen.

See I hadn’t even considered getting two integrated fridge freezers!

The link to the design is here: my-kitchen.howdens.com/plan/7OA2314070019aGF
This is the design with some tweaks I asked for but it just doesn’t feel right yet. It’s not the most useful plan as it doesn’t have any measurements on but you get the idea. I’m happy to hear that my expectations are completely unrealistic- I’d rather that than be told I can have something that isn’t realistic and end up with an inferior kitchen.

you will still need the end panels on the 2 x integrated if you want the same finish and much nicer look
Also look at a complete tall seperate fridge and freezer, if you want more freezer space, you will get alot more freezer space than 70/30, all depends on what you actually need for yourself

When you go in, you'll see your kitchen on the big screen. Then is the time to get to the nitty gritty about what you're not happy with. Spend as long as you need in that room until you're happy.

Any designer worth their salt won't give out the measurements, because there are cheeky bastards out there who I'll use the 'free' service then go elsewhere so the designer has lost their sale and had their time wasted towards their target sales.

There's no harm in pulling the plug and starting from scratch elsewhere though if you don't trust her.

Hmm, the sink is off-centre of the window and the cabinet below it, but that's likely just a CAD design error. There's no reason why it can't be centralised to create a more symmetrical look.

The larders around the F/F look to be 400mm and the bridging cabinet appears to be 1000mm; if that's the case then that's 1872mm that you could reclaim 600mm of worktop space from.

What do you think about the position of the fridge?

Also, thank you very much for taking time to answer and give opinions, it’s really helpful, my husband just keeps saying he doesn’t know what the problem is and that it’s so much better than our current kitchen (which it is but most kitchens are!)

To be fair those larders are probably as useful as the worktop, it’s just whether it’s look better in a different configuration.

We had ours done by Howdens and we also went in and faffed round with the design for ages to get it right. Really pleased with it following that.
We have an American fridge freezer and pull out tall larders either side which works well. The only downside being that I bought an extra large one and it does stick out a bit.

Ours is a similar shape looking at your design.

I am
In the midst of kit hen design too. I went to an independent local firm as Magnets were dreadful
And just plonked boxes down. I am having the same issue with fridge freezer!

Mine is bad because I have a catflap in the wall and need to leave a small gap to the left of the unit!