Tenant wants new kitchen and bathroom?

[Lalaland234]

Wasn't sure to put this so feel free to move if necessary, mnhq.

We recently moved house and circumstances meant we decided to rent the property out instead of selling. New tenant moved in two weeks ago. They recently requested to change the flooring in the bathroom and Hallway (agreed to this, within budget and with our approval on colour etc). They've now mentioned about changing the kitchen and possibly bathroom.

The bathroom was redone two years ago and in good condition. It was done by a relative but who is a qualified builder/carpenter so done to a high standard. They just want something new?? We are happy for them to paint though. As for the kitchen, it's perfectly functional and in a decent state. It might not be to everyone's taste (white doors/black counters) but it's neutral and clean.

Where do we stand? The tenant works somewhere that sells bathrooms and kitchen so could probably get trade prices. However, for us, we're not exactly swimming in money. We have two young kids (one with emerging additional needs) so we are currently on one wage. It's not their problem I know, but the bathroom and kitchen are fine, it seems they just want it changed for aesthetic appeal. Do we have to change it?

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you need to toughen up or tenants are going to take the piss.

Unless theres anything wrong with it, then absolutely not!! If they want to change it themselves, I'd say that was fine, but they pay for it and you approve it all, and make sure it's done professionally

I am usually on the side of the tenant, but they are taking the mick.

NO WAY. If it's clean and in good repair, there is no need for you to buy a new lot and for your tenant to get the commission. Tell them they can paint (at their own cost) but no other changes.

Did they not view it before signing the TA?

No. You need to toughen up and run this as a business.
When I rented my landlords wouldn't replace anything, even things that were years old and in poor condition. Most things were patched up or if it had to be replaced it was cheap and basic. Not saying this is right, but replacing a 2 year old bathroom and perfectly good kitchen is insane.

I am a ll with a small portfolio of houses. I have never been asked this before. It sounds as if the house was perfectly well presented. They should not be asking to change the kitchen and bathroom especially as the latter is new. The flooring was really cheeky and something, which should have been agreed upon as part of the rental agreement.

Make clear anything they want done from now on beyond repairs will need to be at their cost and only with your express permission. As for decorating, you can give permission. However, ensure that anything you do agree to is done to a professional standard, ensuring all fixtures, fittings and flooring is protected and on the agreement that the decor is returned to the previous neutral colours prior to vacating.

They probably assume you’re a soft touch and a naive landlord after you agreed to do the flooring and now want to see how much they can get out of you.

Absolutely not! I have a small portfolio of properties and would not dream of replacing a 2 year old bathroom, and the kitchen sounds fine.
Why did you agree to replace the flooring? I would let them paint with the proviso that the decor reverts to the original colours when they move, and it is done to a professional standard..
They are trying it on. Make it very clear there will be no "improvements" - even if they pay for them and they are to stop asking. Repairs fine- and get them done promptly, similarly replacement of white goods, but nothing else.They saw the house as it was when they agreed to rent it, and had the opportunity to look for a property with a kitchen and bathroom they prefer. I hope you have a watertight letting agreement and a good inventory. If you use a letting agent, tell them to ensure the tenants are aware they they cannot change the house.
To use a mumsnet phrase- they are being CF- and hoping to get their commission from you as well.

I'd never be a LL ever again. It is just too time consuming and full of inspections and rules, and inspections and all the rest of it.

We were very happy to give a nice home to renters over the years, but it got very Anti LL eventually. So no more for us, but the house is for sale anyway now since Mum passed RIP.

Renters have all the rights imv, but those providing nice housing have nothing in reserve if things go wrong.

A debate for another day maybe.

@JolieOBrien

One of my tenants a single mum pulled the doors off the kitchen cabinets so she could have a new kitchen ....

Why is it relevant that your tenant is a single mum?

Can't believe you changed the flooring within 2 weeks of them renting from you OP.
Most of us in rentals unless new spanking builds would like a new kitchen and bathroom - ours is at least 20 yrs old but functional - wouldn't dream of demanding it had to be changed, they signed the rental agreement they knew the decor.

They are CF's! and probably going to cause you a neverending headache until they leave! Are they renting short term?

Nope.

They moved in two weeks ago and presumably viewed the house before hand? They have agreed to rent it as is and you haven't made any money out of them yet.

If there are repairs or safety issues then correct them other wise there is no need to change anything.

It is easier to say no now before they want an extension building.

Oh hell no that's just crazy.

However, saying that, I did actually ask a landlord once for a new kitchen! It was an old farm cottage and the kitchen was extremely old, functional but on its last legs. The cupboard doors had been broken off at some point and put back on (leaving chunks of the inside broken off and the hinges moved to a different spot) and the one bit of unit was less than 4 feet long. Not enough to even plate up dinner. It had also bowed in the middle and things would roll off. The landlords were lovely people and lived on the farm. We asked if they were thinking of updating the kitchen (we'd been there 6 years by that point) and they came over, had a look and a couple of months later I had a lovely new, useful kitchen.

Tenants asking so soon after moving in is crazy though. Especially if they're in a nice condition.

Unless it's in a poor state don't change a thing.
You say yes and of course, you know they will want something that they sell.

And what's this about having to change them every 10 years? Maybe it varies across the country, here it's every 25 years at least to get them changed in social housing.

No way they can move out

Hahaha no. They took the property as it was. Plus it’s a 2 year old bathroom which is nothing. Not sure if as an adult l have ever lived in a property where the bathroom is that new? The kitchen sounds fine to me. They are being CF’s

This reminds of when a friend of mine worked for a letting agency. Tenants came in a few weeks after moving in announced they wanted double glazing, some new carpets and a new bathroom. They were told no

No!
Ffs.
Keep a v close eye on those fuckers.
They'll be the ones who'll wreck your rental.

I'm really surprised at the number of LLs here who let their tenants paint their property. I wouldn't.

And i still have my 1980s bathroom and ensuite, one of them avocado. So far have flat refused to change. It's unlikely to result in an increase in rent (unlike the kitchen) and has never proved to be a deal-killer for finding a tenant.

As it is in good order give them the option of changing it themselves at their expense but you get a veto so they have to agree plans with you.

Also have them sign that it will be returned to the current colour scheme at the end of the rental.

@rhubarbcrumbles

Because she is one ... my own mum was a single mum for 5 years before she met my step-dad. She did not have benefits because it was the 60s so she had to work hard to support me while my Grandmother looked after me.

@fika

One of my tenants has decorated the whole house and I did not mind because after all it is their home and they can improve it they have the money and the time. One asked for money to replace the fence which I gave them because he is a fence erector and did a good job.

They saw the property as it was and signed a tenancy. The bathroom and kitchen are perfectly functional. If it purely down to taste then they can pay for it with your approval, otherwise they can forget it. They are being very unreasonable, never they'll expect you to do their shopping and cleaning! If I were you I'd get an estate agent involved and have it managed. Shop around and get a good deal, you don't need tenants pestering you every 5 minutes, and they won't bother an agent with such ridiculous requests, and if they do that's down to the agent to deal with

If they sign a long 10 year lease I don’t see why not.

Tenants are making their home in your house.

Maybe they are short and the counters are too high, or the bath isn’t what they want - maybe they have mobility issues and need a better layout and grip bars.

You are still “living” in your rental property, in my opinion, without acknowledging they pay the mortgage for you and they may be renting for life.

I’d get them to sign a long lease, and pay for any changes themselves, with you as veto for the designs.

It’s their home. It’s your house. They’re adding value to it by looking after it and improving it.

filka I always ask if I can paint as (some) contractors tend to do a terrible job as soon as they know it’s a rental As in, blotchy paint, painting over light switches, paint on the carpets. Our current house is lovely, but there’s magnolia paint up the edges of the stair carpet where they didn’t bother covering it, the original (green and purple!!) paint left under blinds and the edge of the boiler etc - anywhere that required a bit of effort.

I did such a good job on our last rental that it looked nicer than when we lived in it!

I know as a landlord it’s hard to know which tenants will do a good job and which will be rubbish though.

They only signed the lease two weeks ago. Give it some time and see what kind of tenants they are before you commit to a long let.

I would reply by pointing out that they took the property as seen. Point out that the kitchen and bathroom are functional and in good repair and you have no intention of replacing them or allowing tenants to do so. Point out that as a LL you will meet your obligations to maintain the property in good order and that they should let you know about anything which needs repair, but you will not be replacing things that are simply not to their taste or are perfectly functional during their tenancy.

It seems they don't understand how it all works or are taking the piss. The fact you changed the floor for them on request within 2 weeks (was that agreed before they moved in or did they make a request immediately) has probably embolden end them to think you are a soft touch.

Be very clear about what work they can do to the property and what they cannot - be wary of allowing much because people often do a poor job or choose something to their taste which won't appeal to later tenants....meaning it will cost you money to sort later. Nothing the tenant does beyond wear and tear should cost you money later. That is why if you allow painting you should make clear that they must return the property to magnolia or whatever you choose, to a high standard before leaving or pay additional charges to cover the return. Even this is fraught with difficulties which is why many LL don't allow it at all - tenants do re paint but do a bad job which the LL then needs to read-do (costing money) or they say they will pay for it be done professionally and don't (costing LL money). Personally, I wouldn't allow any painting in at least the first 6 months - I would have wanted to have done a couple of inspections to see if the tenant looks like a keeper and only then give permission. I might also say I only allow it if tenants plan to stay longer term - although you can't later insist they sign another contract or stay, it often gives you an idea if they plan to stay, which makes me more amenable to decorating. If someone is going to be around for at least 2 years I think it's not unreasonable to want to choose your own paint colour and it can help it feel like home meaning people stay longer. If tenants change every 6 months or year, I really don't want it being decorated in an ameteurish way once or even twice a year.

Re changing bathrooms or kitchens, the usual time to do this is between tenancies. Very occasionally it might be done in the middle of a long tenancy - and in this circumstance you have to guage things carefully. These works can be very disruptive meaning tenants can and might ask for rent reduction. One way to reduce this is if doing it in the middle of a long tenancy is to get the tenants involved - so narrowing your choice of kitchen or bathroom to 2 or 3 and letting them have the final choice, especially if they have been keen to have a new kitchen or bathroom and it has genuinely needed replacing. In this circumstance they can feel more invested in it, willing romper up with the inconvenience and also more likely to stay longer in the property. I do tHint really long term good tenants need some rewards - they are what LLs long for and are worth cultivating.
Your tenants haven't got to this point yet!