What would you do with this downstairs layout (and how)?

[theshellhouse]

I'm living in a Victorian terrace that's had the full open plan treatment on the downstairs - front and back room knocked together and no hallway, although a small internal porch has been added in. I'm attaching our floorplan, and that of one of the other houses in the terrace. We've lived in the house a few months and thought I would love the massive spacious room downstairs but actually don't like it very much - it makes the downstairs difficult to heat and I hate eating dinner feeling like I'm in in the hallway, looking at a pile of shoes. The internal porch is too small for shoes and coats so they're supposed to live under the stairs, but obviously they don't always. I'm leaning towards putting it back to what the neighbours have, except with no door into the kitchen.
But if we did put the hall back in, it makes the back room VERY small and separates the kitchen and the dining room which is awkward when carrying plates. We eat in the dining room as there isn't space in the kitchen. Some terraces in the area were built with the hallway just encompassing the stairs so that you lose less from the back room and the back room connects directly to the kitchen. But then you get a very narrow, claustrophobic looking hallway. And that isn't how our house was built in the first place.

So my questions are:

1. WWYD?
2. Stupid question, but I need to do flooring soon. I'm guessing the wall has to be in place before flooring? How about the wiring?
3. Would you attempt this as a DIY project? (?!)

Have you been next door to see how you feel about the room sizes?

I think I’d prefer the more spacious solution of your house but I’d just get better at putting shoes away + install adequate radiators to heat the room (and double glazing if that’s not in place yet).

I'd put the wall back but maybe install sliding pocket doors so you can open up if you need the space. Then knock out the wall between kitchen and back room and make it feel like one space.

Is there an option of extending into the back passage out the side of the kitchen - then open up the kitchen to be a kitchen diner?

I would reinstate the walls around the front room so you have an ‘escape’ and open up the back room to the kitchen to create a large kitchen dining space, leaving the hall wall down in that area. Does that make sense?

@JoJoSM2 yes it already has double glazing and massive radiators on the two walls that you can put a radiator on. It just can't counteract the fact that you basically have to heat the upstairs to get the downstairs warm because the heat goes up the stairs.

What Puffy said

We lived in a house like this. The previous owner had put a wall running from the front door almost right up to the stairs. When you walked in it felt super narrow, but then opened up into the big room. I spent my decade there wishing we could knock the wall down. 😆

In your case, I'd buy 2 x 4-door Ikea shoe cupboards (they're amazing, really narrow from the side but pretty from the front, and you can put plants, candles etc in the top) and put those near the bottom of the stairs. Make that your entrance focal point, with a mirror above it, etc.

Or just keep the shoes in the utility room.

Then switch your chair in the dinning room so you sit with your back to the hallway.

The Ikea shoe cupboard. I love these.

www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/hemnes-shoe-cabinet-with-4-compartments-white-60156121/

Yeah, I agree with puffy.

Houses round here are similar and I've seen lots of different configurations. If there's no room for a dining table in the kitchen then I think the open plan kitchen - dining room plus separate living room is the best option.

And yes, get your layout sorted before you do the floor.

Thanks all. The problem with adding hallway furniture is that the radiator is on that wall (and it isn't a very long wall, so fully occupied with radiator). There isn't anywhere else the radiator could go, as there are only two feasible walls and they both have radiators filling them entirely. So furniture against wouldn't be ideal from the heat point of view. I guess I could try switching the shape of the radiator, might get one shoe cupboard in then. But I'm still not convinced that solves the feeling of having the 'feel' of having the hallway and stairs in the living area.

I'm not particularly keen on side return extensions and not an option financially atm anway. In the long term I'd like to extend out the back.

@puffylovett You mean a bit like the pic attached, but completely close the front room? I like the idea but I think that would make both front and back room very dark - they are east/west facing and neither gets lots of light as it is. And doesn't it feel a bit weird - you turn a corner and your hallway opens out into your dining room? It would need a steel to knock through there.

Btw there is a step down between the back room and the kitchen.

Went to knock on the neighbours' door and it definitely feels cosier and pleasanter. It doesn't have the 'living space as atrium' feeling that is bugging me so much at the moment. There is still room for a reasonable sized table in the back room. However, the rooms definitely feel considerably narrower! Arrrrgh...

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I realise I've shot them all down () but it's still helpful to think each one through and articulating what I want is helping me get there.

I’d close off the stairs - lots of Victorian terraces don’t have a hallway going past the dining room. You can have the sort at a angle so it looks less like a straight narrow corridor - but I think that’s pretty inevitable in a Victorian terrace.

You could also add large fold back or pocket doors between the living and dining rooms so you have the option to open it up.

Like this

There was a George Clark with a similar layout, I think it was Ugly House to Lovely House. They put a room divider cabinet where the wall to the front room used to be, to take all shoes and coats etc but still be open iyswim. Could something like that suit you?

@VeThings Yeah we were just discussing that that might be the best compromise since the bit you spoil is the hall, which I definitely care about the least. I just can't shake the feel that it feels 'wrong' to put it back differently to how it was originally!

@JohnLapsleyParlabane thanks, will have a look. Any leads on tracking down which episode?

I love JohnLapsley's idea. Coats and shoes stored by the front door in some sort of partitioning arrangement could work well. I've even seen shoe drawers built into the stair risers, though I expect that's expensive.

This reminds me of what they said in NCT classes - that you need to feel you're in a safe place to give birth. Obviously this is not about giving birth :) but I can relate to that sense that you can't quite feel cosy and, well, hygge with that open sightline pathway to the front door. Whether a cupboard-partition thing is enough, or you need to put a wall back in, only you can judge. If the latter, reinstating the lounge wall and leaving the back of the hall as part of the dining room would make sense to me. It would also give you back 2 extra places for radiators.

I have a tiny hallway that's always messy and full of too many bags. It's THE most annoying thing about our house but I would never knock it through into our living room. The first thing we do when we feel cold is close the door between living room and hall. We find the key with shoe storage is ease of use. I like old fashioned pigeon holes - kids can kick their shoes off into them without having to faff with drawers and cupboard doors, so no excuses for not JFDI, and the shoes are more covered up than they are in open racks.

@MistressMind "but I can relate to that sense that you can't quite feel cosy and, well, hygge with that open sightline pathway to the front door."

I have just been trying to explain to my husband how my primitive instincts don't like being able to see the entrance, something about sensing the wolves too close to the fire. You've expressed it much better! Thanks for what you said re storage - that's helpful. I agree that access is important. We do actually have plenty of shoe and coat storage under the stairs and most things are in there. But not the coat I wore today which is slung on the bannisters, the pair of shoes I just used to take the bins out, the entrance mat, guests' shoes when they come to stay, and so on... It is always going to be a focal point for at least some mess.

And putting the wall in as Vethings said is definitely the most space-efficient way of getting the stairs and entrance out of the living space. I guess one more downside is then your understairs cupboard is in the back room, so presumably if you want to retain access to that you can't put furniture against that wall. Unless you try to configure it so that you get to the understairs space from the kitchen... god this gets trickier and trickier...

I don't have the answer but I was just reading about "prospect-refuge" theory in architecture and it is basically what you are talking about!

@smemorata am feeling SO smug right now!

I'd knock the wall down between kitchen and dining room so those two are one room.
Then put wall between dining room and front room.

Ah thank goodness - I thought as I wrote that how wanky I sounded so I'm glad it made some sense.

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Completely missed your responses and not sure if this will work! But like this link. I wouldn’t put a whole wall up to the rear of the front reception, personally I would probably put folding doors across a wide opening so you could section that room off. Seen it done a few times and looks really nice.

Another layout I like I saw on Instagram, account ourlittleredbrickhouse. They have just the wall by the front door up and the rest is open plan, but they’ve sort of broken planned it with inbuilt bookshelves / cabinetry to seperate off the front room.